Pool pump advice

Normy · 06-13-2009, 03:53 PM

Does anyone around here know anything about pool pumps?

I'm in the beginning stages of putting a pool in the backyard. I've discussed the design with two pool companies, and they thought what I wanted to do would be pretty reasonable. I'm not putting in any waterfalls, fancy spas, or silly "laminar" water jets. Just a decent pool for soaking, not really big enough for laps or anything. I'll definitely put in a salt system, but heating isn't necessary in south Florida.

The two companies recommended different brands....and each ran the other brand down. One group recommended Jandy, and the other Haywood.

I've heard of Haywood. I think my parents pool had a Haywood pump and filter back when I was a kid, and it seemed to work fairly well. On the other hand, one shop had a Jandy and a Haywood next to each other, and the Jandy was larger and more robust-looking than the Haywood [same motors].

Hmm. Any recommendations? I'm thinking 1.5 hp motors.

N

daepp · 06-13-2009, 04:31 PM

I So Cal: the best I've had ae "Whisperflo" pumps

FWIW, I am currently being pitched a new variable speed pump motor. The supplier claims mcuh efficiency - like approx $100/mo savings. Repayment in about 14 months. YMMV.

At the present, I estimate that my pool costs me $150-175/mo. in electricity. Chemicals are another $35/mo.

Joeaksa · 06-13-2009, 04:47 PM

I have a Haywood on my pool and it works fine. Am switching it over to solar power this summer.

Hugh R · 06-13-2009, 04:56 PM

Talk to your local electric utility about rebates on energy efficient pumps, I bought two a few years back and they gave me something like $50 each back in rebates. Ditto on gas pool heaters.

Porsche_monkey · 06-13-2009, 07:07 PM

My Haywood was fine. Put it in a shed, avoid the noise, on a timer. And get a cartridge filter, not sand.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

How many hours per day are you running? I run 4 hours/day and have a 1 hp pump -> 0.75kW * 4 hr/day * 30 days = 90 kWh/month -> @ $0.129/kWh = $12 /mth

Porsche_monkey · 06-14-2009, 04:04 AM

I run mine 8 hours per day.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normy

Does anyone around here know anything about pool pumps?

I'm in the beginning stages of putting a pool in the backyard. I've discussed the design with two pool companies, and they thought what I wanted to do would be pretty reasonable. I'm not putting in any waterfalls, fancy spas, or silly "laminar" water jets. Just a decent pool for soaking, not really big enough for laps or anything. I'll definitely put in a salt system, but heating isn't necessary in south Florida.

The two companies recommended different brands....and each ran the other brand down. One group recommended Jandy, and the other Haywood.

I've heard of Haywood. I think my parents pool had a Haywood pump and filter back when I was a kid, and it seemed to work fairly well. On the other hand, one shop had a Jandy and a Haywood next to each other, and the Jandy was larger and more robust-looking than the Haywood [same motors].

Hmm. Any recommendations? I'm thinking 1.5 hp motors.

N

I have a 27,000 gallon pool, with a 1 hp pump, and only need to run 4 hours per day. You want as small a pump as will do the job, to keep the energy cost down.

http://www.haywardnet.com/pdfs/Pump_filter_sizing.pdf

Since you are not around that much, go with the in pool self cleaning system. For the same reason, go with a salt water system. You'll want to automate the system as much as possible.

I went with a very clean look for the pool and the hot-tub, rectangular with a flush to the deck look. I did go with the color logic lights and I put in fountain deck jets.

Have someone knowedgable check the construction as it takes place. I had my installation group re-do the tile twice because of bad work.

You might also contact Johnco on the board. He does all of this for a living, and from my understanding, will travel to do the installs. He is also a lot less expensive and can do the install much quicker than most companies.

David · David's Garage

I can't help on the pump since I'm running the original 20+ year old pump. It has a brass impeler that still looks fine.

As for a $100/mo savings, like Red Beard wrote, your electric use isn't that large so there wouldn't be much savings.

In the summer I run my pump from 10am to just before 5 pm when the grid load starts to ramp up for the evening peak. In the winter I run it from noon to 4pm. Don't fall for the electric company request to run it at night, that's not when the algae grows.

targa911S · 06-14-2009, 06:51 AM

Haywood is fine. 1 hp will do the job. Put it on a timer so it is on auto pilot. Auto chlorinator in line. Barracuda is the best pool cleaner...just buy it. +1 on a cart. filter.

dad911 · 06-14-2009, 07:29 AM

Jandy Pumps here, no problem in 5 years.

I also installed the Jandy Aqualink system. Did it myself, not really that expensive, when you consider it replaces timers, subpanel, etc. Can control everything spaside, and from inside the house.

Zeke · 06-14-2009, 07:33 AM

I'm not current

on these, but the lexan ones of old were rather noisy. Can you still buy a bronze one?

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

The main things to consider on the pump: Sized for YOUR POOL, Quiet operation, energy efficient.

I run my pump from 11AM to 3 PM. I want my water to circulate at the maximum sun portion of the day. I also kick the pumps on when I am swimming.

In florida, for the summer, you may want to invest into an extra pump, with lines a mist rod or 2, to help cool the water. It sprays water into air in a mist, to evaporatively cool the pool.

Again, beacuse you are not going to be around, you will want some extra features to make to pool as self maintaining as possible. Salt System, pH control, self cleaning (not a pool cleaner, but the MDX jet system to drive all the dirt into the filters), etc. Don't go cheap on these. You do not want to return to a green mess.

Me? I run normal chlorine. I check the levels a couple of times a week and throw in the 3" tables once a week, acid 1-2 times per month. I spend 30 minutes a week on the pool. With the full automation, the only thing you'll do is clean the filters about every 3 months.

Normy · 06-14-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

The main things to consider on the pump: Sized for YOUR POOL, Quiet operation, energy efficient.

I run my pump from 11AM to 3 PM. I want my water to circulate at the maximum sun portion of the day. I also kick the pumps on when I am swimming.

In florida, for the summer, you may want to invest into an extra pump, with lines a mist rod or 2, to help cool the water. It sprays water into air in a mist, to evaporatively cool the pool.

Again, beacuse you are not going to be around, you will want some extra features to make to pool as self maintaining as possible. Salt System, pH control, self cleaning (not a pool cleaner, but the MDX jet system to drive all the dirt into the filters), etc. Don't go cheap on these. You do not want to return to a green mess.

Me? I run normal chlorine. I check the levels a couple of times a week and throw in the 3" tables once a week, acid 1-2 times per month. I spend 30 minutes a week on the pool. With the full automation, the only thing you'll do is clean the filters about every 3 months.

That is EXCELLENT information! I owe you a couple of beers for sure!

I'm definitely planning the salt system. Nearly everyone in SoFla has this system now, and when you swim in a pool with this, you can't tell there is chlorine. The self-cleaning system: I was kind of up in the air about this one, but it sounds like a good idea.

The two-speed pump was indeed pitched to me, don't know if I want that or not. I need to contact FPL to find out if there is an advantage. The pool I want to put in is small- about 10 feet wide and about 20 feet long, so that it fits the existing footprint of the lanai and wood deck. I was told that 1.5 hp pumps would work just fine, though the Jandy people suggested 2 hp.

-One contractor wants to install an overflow drain line, the other does not. ?

?

Thanx again!

N

Danimal16 · 06-14-2009, 08:16 AM

Normy,

I am a civil engineer in the water business. I also just replaced the pump on my pool and it made a huge difference. I can do the calcs for you if you need them as they are very straight forward.

I am extremely biased towards pentair pumps. I have had great success with these pumps in well over 250 hp applications on down to the pool pump I have now.

First of all the reason that I changed my perfectly operating old pentair single speed pump is because it is an energy burner. Advances in pump manufacture have contributed but not like the new motors. Pentair takes this to the extreme and for a very reasonable price considering the cost of electricity. I installed a variable speed, soft start Pentair and easily cut my electic bill in half, easily. Furthermore, when I did a cost analysis, the savings by converting (with a $200) rebate, had a cash payback of less than a year! This does not include the $100 I got for the old pump. I paid about $950 for the 3050( the lessor of the two pumps) and it runs like a champ. If I didn't have a solor heater I would save more by not having to pump the flow to my roof. However, I am thinking of getting an inexpensive blanket to reduce this expense futher.

Here are my choices (depending on the size of you pool):

http://www.pentairpool.com/products/products3.php?id=76

This brochure covers both the 3050 and SVRS. The SVRS is an incredible unit as well but my pool is pretty straight forward.

Let me know if you need the calcs. What I will need is the dimensions of your pool (close is good) and the highest elevation change in the system. In other words if you are going to have roof top solar collectors. If no roof top stuff, than I will assume that there is the normal seperation between the pool low point and the pump volute (engineering term, because we can throw around terms like that LOL).

Also, cost out the salt system, they are very expensive and can have long paybacks compaired to a floating distributer.

Make sure you calculate the filter size as well. This is a critical match because if the filter is too small you will not be able to turn the pool over without filter bridging (not working). What type of filter are you going to use, make and model.

The normal calc involves the pool turnover. Once per day is adequate, but the general rule of thumb is twice. I have found that pool men will tell you that you must run the thing 6 or 8 hours per day and that is just BS. My pool man, who I no longer have, was somewhat of an a$$ about this. I run the pool pump and filter for 2 hours. Man did he listen when he saw that the water condition was actually easier to maintain.

Anyway let me know.

Also, I have a perfectly good Kreepy Krauly that I recently replace with a new one from a garage sale that I will let go cheap if you are interested. It is in PERFECT operating condition, a little bleached out but it runs as good as a new one.

Danimal16 · 06-14-2009, 08:20 AM

Normy,

Is the pool 3 feet in the shallow and 8 or 6 feet at the deep end? Is it rectangular?

The reason that I bring up rectangular is you may want to consider a automatic pool cover if that is in your budget.

Also, it is my opinion that the expense of the salt system is pretty high. You may want to consider plumbing and wiring for the system, try the bromine or chlorine tabs and make you decision later.

Danimal16 · 06-14-2009, 08:25 AM

Normy,

Here is what I have:

Average Pool Depth = 5.5 feet
Pool Volume (CF) = 20 x 10 x 5.5 = 1100 cf
Pool Volume (gallons) = 7.48 x 1100 = 8,228 gallons (say 8,300)

Don't go the two speed route, but if you have a model in mind, let me know.

Also, that filter size is important, I can make some assumptions using the size filter that I have.

Dan

notmytarga · notmytarga's Garage

I had a $68K, 42K gal pool put in 4 years ago. "Best" company around. Despite using good equipment at the time I have made some changes, and anticipate others. I consider pool maintenance to be the closest thing I have to using my undergraduate chemistry degree.

My pool does not have a chlorine generator/salt water system. My parents live locally and seem to struggle with a system that tells them to add endless bags of salt - I have given up telling them they are overdoing it. It is SALTY and I read it should be below the taste threshold. Theirs is like brine..... My pool has a Nature 2 system which, as I understand it, is a cartridge you place in an inline feeder at the beginning of the season which uses metallic ions to condition the water and reduce chlorine needs - they suggest a 0.5 ppm chlorine level which is "barely there". I still have an occasional Algae Bloom - but I'm hoping phosphate reduction will forstall that problem.

One improvement that gave great bang for the buck was the $80 chlorine tablet feeder. It taps in before and after the filter, holds a stack of about 10 3" tablets and you adjust the little flow dial to maintain the chlorine where you need it. Much more effective, safe and aesthetic than a floater.

Pumps can be noisy. They also use a substantial amount of electricity. Brand is probabaly less important than type. As noted by others, minimizing the time the pump is on directly reduces that cost. I run mine for 3 hours off season (water less that 60 F) and 6-8 hours during the swim season. The new, low or variable speed pumps are now required by my local code because they are so much more efficient. For 1/4 th the energy and noise the lower speed does a better job filtering. The filters are more effective when they don't have a pressure and flow excess. I would like to upgrade my main pump eventually.

My Polaris cleaner works fine but I have few trees and a Baby Guard screen fence so there is not much stuff in the pool.

You ask about pumps on PPOT - and we're building your pool for you...

tabs · 11:40 AM

Do you know HOW EASY it is to sub contract your own pool, and how much money you save by doing it? Pool contracting companies make at least 25% to 35% profit on your pool. I would estimate you could build it yourself for 50% to 60% of their price...Ask me how I know, I have done it and my friend does it all the time...All it takes is some of your time...If you are having an 80K pool put in you could do it for 45K to 50K..is 30K worth your time? Or you r can get more pool for your money..

Let me tell ya the steps involved..

YOu need to draw a nice scale picture of your backyard and design of the pool you want...you need to find a Civil Engineering firm in your area that sells the engineering specs for your soil conditions..that about $100 and they afix their license stamp on the document...you take all that down to the city and get your permit...whew that was a tough one...

You need a pool digger, a plumber, an electrician, a rebar guy, a gunnite guy, a tile and coping guy, a plasterer and a cement layer/ finisher...ONE guy leads to the next...

Your electrician or plumber can set you up to buy your equipment wholesale...

I would probably run a little overkill 2.5 hp on the pool circulation motor, if you have an additional water feature I would run an extra pump...I ran a DE filter that needed cleaning apx 3 times a year. 1 1/2 hours to completely disassemble and put back to gether... I would say the pool needs its own electric subpanel...Jandy also makes all those automatic pool switching cvalves for spas and water features

I ran Whisperflow pumps...a 2.5 hp apx 6 hours a day was $35 a month..

Definatley salt water system, and what ever self cleaning system that turns your fancy...it all keeps you from having to spend your free time keeping it up...and makes it an enjoyable experience..

ONe thing that you need to carefully consider is the placement of those pool circulation jets...to make sure that there are no dead water spots...usually the plumber will understand the placemnt of those.(pool cos are no better at it then you).Also take pics of where the plumbing pipes are laid...so in case you ever have to dig them up...

Danimal16 · 06-14-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

Do you know HOW EASY it is to sub contract your own pool, and how much money you save by doing it? Pool contracting companies make at least 25% to 35% profit on your pool. I would estimate you could build it yourself for 50% to 60% of their price...Ask me how I know, I have done it and my friend does it all the time...All it takes is some of your time...If you are having an 80K pool put in you could do it for 45K to 50K..is 30K worth your time? Or you r can get more pool for your money..

Let me tell ya the steps involved..

YOu need to draw a nice scale picture of your backyard and design of the pool you want...you need to find a Civil Engineering firm in your area that sells the engineering specs for your soil conditions..that about $100 and they afix their license stamp on the document...you take all that down to the city and get your permit...whew that was a tough one...

You need a pool digger, a plumber, an electrician, a rebar guy, a gunnite guy, a tile and coping guy, a plasterer and a cement layer/ finisher...ONE guy leads to the next...

Your electrician or plumber can set you up to buy your equipment wholesale...

I would probably run a little overkill 2.5 hp on the pool circulation motor, if you have an additional water feature I would run an extra pump...I ran a DE filter that needed cleaning apx 3 times a year. 1 1/2 hours to completely disassemble and put back to gether... I would say the pool needs its own electric subpanel...Jandy also makes all those automatic pool switching cvalves for spas and water features

I ran Whisperflow pumps...a 2.5 hp apx 6 hours a day was $35 a month..

Definatley salt water system, and what ever self cleaning system that turns your fancy...it all keeps you from having to spend your free time keeping it up...and makes it an enjoyable experience..

ONe thing that you need to carefully consider is the placement of those pool circulation jets...to make sure that there are no dead water spots...usually the plumber will understand the placemnt of those.(pool cos are no better at it then you).Also take pics of where the plumbing pipes are laid...so in case you ever have to dig them up...

Tabs,

An 8,000 gallon pool is on the small side of things. 2.5 hp pump is truely wasted energy. My little pool is 8k gallons and the Pentair 1.5 VS 3050 pump can handle it without going to the solar heaters at about 20% rated max and I can get to the collectors at about 60%. This is a two story lift. No need for that big of a pump. As a matter of fact I could have gone with a 1 or less hp if I wanted to spend the money on a custom impeller. Not worth it, very pricey for custom complex machining.