Anybody know anything about 190e 16v?

[rammstein]

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-trade-wanted-items/1436765-track-prepped-1987-mercedes-190e-2-a.html

This looks kinda cool.

[KaptKaos]

Rare and Mercedes so engine and trans parts are spendy. IIRC, the rear shocks were troublesome hydraulic units that were expensive to keep up, and many have been replaced.

Those are not the original wheels.

Something about the grill and front end troubles me, but I can't place it.

These were built to fight with BMWs (eventually the E30 M3).

Good luck!

[VaSteve]

I drive occasionally with the MB club and those are pretty quick for a Benz. They have quite a few in this area and I might have seen that one out there a couple of weeks ago....funny to see a Benz show up with track rubber. I think they have CIS which is off for a car that 'Young'. Good luck if offer to check it out for you if it was closer.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

Something about the grill and front end troubles me, but I can't place it.

From the owner's description of the car:

"I added an AvanteGarde S600 front grill with wider slats, a removable hood star..."


Frankly, everything that has been changed on the car is a step in the wrong direction for me. The car looks pretty beat; even with that sort of mileage a series of caring owners wouldn't have let it get that bad. Looks like a repaint, too. Stock, these were painted a charcoal grey, or a smoke silver. I'd pass.

JR

[NICKG]

there is one for sale by me for 1500..they came in most ALL colors btw

[kaisen]

$5500 is a lot of dough for that car. Not original in any sense. Not particularly low miles. Seats look beat.

And they're slow. A modern Civic or Sentra could dust it.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by NICKG

..they came in most ALL colors btw

Not in the US of A.....

Sold here only in 1986 and 1987, two colors to pick from...

JR

[NICKG]

i have seen factory red, gold (camry biege), black, silver and charcoal...all us cars, all in original paint. I know them pretty well...one of my buddies has 3
I think it's like the 944 turbo s...you know only available in silber rose> boulderdash!
seriously, i have seen a good deal of these in US and grey market spec, only color i have never seen was white(alledgely available)

[javadog]

Well, when I was looking to buy one, way back when, the only choices were the two colors I listed. I still might have a brochure laying around somewhere, if I could find it... There were a lot of these imported as grey market versions, perhaps that's what you saw. I ended up deciding to go down the M3 path, instead of buying a 190, although my boss at the time drove one. There was one rotting away under some pine trees about 10 miles from me, the last I looked. The owner wanted way too much money for a worn out, non-runner.

JR

The 944 turbo S was introduced in one color, then subsequently became a regular production version, available in many colors. That's well documented.

[beepbeep]

Great drivers car. Something like E30 M3 but a bit heavier and a tad less powerful. Engine is Cosworth job, unfortunately hampered by CIS.

If you can fix small stuff and upgrade suspension/get rid of CIS you will never want to sell it.

[NICKG]

java, they may have been imports as i think about it...the bumpers were small and 1 has cloth seats

[rammstein]

I guess it is moot anyhow. Wife gave me a funny look when I mentioned a 24 year old Mercedes. I guess I am a sucker for mid-eighties German hardware.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Cool cars, but I would pass on that one. Much of the exterior/suspension stuff could be seen as an upgrade, but the interior is beat. Faux wood trim and an AFR gauge, WTF? Also the respray is suspect, it looks like they just sprayed over everything.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Faux wood trim and an AFR gauge, WTF? Also the respray is suspect, it looks like they just sprayed over everything.

Most of the wood is oem, fwiw.
Why would you need the AFR gauge on a stock naturally aspirated car?
The paint job is horrible!

I have NO idea why anyone would lust after one of these cars. Underpowered, overweight, heavy recirc-ball steering, no interior space, plastics abound. By modern standards it's a turd.
The only thing going for it is the three pointed star, rarity, and some relatively insignificant racing history.

[the]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Most of the wood is oem, fwiw.
Why would you need the AFR gauge on a stock naturally aspirated car?
The paint job is horrible!

I have NO idea why anyone would lust after one of these cars. Underpowered, overweight, heavy recirc-ball steering, no interior space, plastics abound. By modern standards it's a turd.
The only thing going for it is the three pointed star, rarity, and some relatively insignificant racing history.

I agree with that.

It was a kind of neat car at the time, when most cars still had relatively low performance it was a decent performer, and a stick shift mercedes sedan was unheard of in the US at the time. The engine had some interesting history to it. I remember thinking it was a pretty cool car at the time, and had a neighbor who spent a fortune importing an early grey market one.

But I'd agree, they would hardly seem worth the hassle these days.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Most of the wood is oem, fwiw.
Why would you need the AFR gauge on a stock naturally aspirated car?
The paint job is horrible!

I have NO idea why anyone would lust after one of these cars. Underpowered, overweight, heavy recirc-ball steering, no interior space, plastics abound. By modern standards it's a turd.
The only thing going for it is the three pointed star, rarity, and some relatively insignificant racing history.

To improve looks in the interior, an air/fuel meter (connected to wideband O2 sensor) replaced a non-working lap timer on the center console. Burlwood dash trim was installed along with newer style window switches all around. To improve safety and looks, a set of brushed aluminum and rubber pedals from SLK320 were also installed.

In stock form, I don't think they have much/any wood trim. That burlwood looks nothing like the normally attractive MB burlwood, and there's too much of it.

By your standards, most classic cars are turds. A Honda Accord coupe can run with an SC, get better MPG, and the A/C actually works. Does that make a 911 SC a turd as well?

It's a rare Mercedes with real racing history that's supposed to be a blast to drive. That's enough to make me interested in one, especially for a whopping $5k.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

In stock form, I don't think they have much/any wood trim. That burlwood looks nothing like the normally attractive MB burlwood, and there's too much of it.

http://www.mb190e16v.com/Templates/Mercedes_the%20car%20index.htm

The 190 E 2.3-16 was also sold in the US......In the interior were extra bars mounted in the doors and under the dashboard for extra crash protection. The US models were further fitted with a wood trim on the dashboard and center console. Furthermore there were options like automatic climate control and cruise control available that were not an option in Europe.



The only 'added' wood on that example appears to be the IP surround and glovebox door handle.

Here's a 1987 U.S. model to compare: http://eyenet-mgr.ebizautos.com/shared/photos-used-1987-Mercedes~Benz-190-E-3829090.html?src=eBay&pid=2

By your standards, most classic cars are turds. A Honda Accord coupe can run with an SC, get better MPG, and the A/C actually works. Does that make a 911 SC a turd as well?

Maybe if it were only about power. But older 911s have remarkable power-to-weight ratio. Heavier modern cars may have more power, but might only equal a 911.

But the 911 has other dynamic attributes like turn-in and steering feel. The 190e has what?

It's a rare Mercedes with real racing history that's supposed to be a blast to drive.

Don't confuse rarity for desirability.

I've driven them, and they're no more fun than a e30 318is, or a mid-nineties Civic VTEC.

[David in VA]

I can't link directly to the car but if you go to http://autokennel.com/ there is one on their page which looks mostly stock other than the wheels. Pretty cool cars I think, never drove one though.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

http://www.mb190e16v.com/Templates/Mercedes_the%20car%20index.htm

The 190 E 2.3-16 was also sold in the US......In the interior were extra bars mounted in the doors and under the dashboard for extra crash protection. The US models were further fitted with a wood trim on the dashboard and center console. Furthermore there were options like automatic climate control and cruise control available that were not an option in Europe.



The only 'added' wood on that example appears to be the IP surround and glovebox door handle.

Here's a 1987 U.S. model to compare: http://eyenet-mgr.ebizautos.com/shared/photos-used-1987-Mercedes~Benz-190-E-3829090.html?src=eBay&pid=2




Maybe if it were only about power. But older 911s have remarkable power-to-weight ratio. Heavier modern cars may have more power, but might only equal a 911.

But the 911 has other dynamic attributes like turn-in and steering feel. The 190e has what?



Don't confuse rarity for desirability.

I've driven them, and they're no more fun than a e30 318is, or a mid-nineties Civic VTEC.

I stand corrected on the wood. Though it still looks like ass, I question if any of it is OEM.

Honda Accord coupe goes 0-60 in 5.3 sec. Sure it's no track car, but it will show an SC (or Carrera) it's taillights. Agreed that the SC has more to offer, but you get my point about modern vs classic.

I would argue that the 190e 2.3-16 has character, but I've never had the opportunity to drive one. From a distance I've always thought they were cool cars.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I stand corrected on the wood. Though it still looks like ass, I question if any of it is OEM.

I'm pretty certain you feel that way because any wood in a W201 (190E ) is truly an afterthought, where in E and S class cars they were engineered with wood trim.

Honda Accord coupe goes 0-60 in 5.3 sec. Sure it's no track car, but it will show an SC (or Carrera) it's taillights. Agreed that the SC has more to offer, but you get my point about modern vs classic.

No factory offering of the Accord coupe has ever done 5.3 seconds to 60. But I agree with your point, in principle.

I would argue that the 190e 2.3-16 has character, but I've never had the opportunity to drive one. From a distance I've always thought they were cool cars.

Having owned a C36, you'll be sorely disappointed in the 2.3-16V.
Please drive one sometime so we can agree