The only way to get around he said/he said would be to see if there is a flight plan for the aircraft. I believe they would have to file one to patrol, and if there wasn't one for that day it could/should be proof that there was no aircraft in the air.

I doubt there is a detailed flight plan - they most likely just fly VFR. However, if the aircraft can be determined and if there is a log of tickets that a/c supported then it is a simple time/distance calculation to see how fast the a/c would have to fly to be involved in this event. Compare that to the a/c performance specs and you just might find out that it's impossible to have been there.

Mark - Let us know the location they have you down as speeding, the speed limit and then the alledged speed....I have a theory:

Your trip probably included the Yakima Canyon (Hwy 821)....Great twisty road, but speed lime of 45 mph. They have several areas marked for aircraft timing in the canyon. The canyon ends at Ellensburg and you get on the freeway with a speed limit of 70.

Is it possible your were timed in the canyon doing 70 in a 45, no troopers were in the area to stop you, so a fish and game guy responds and you're on the freeway by then?

Let us know. I was in a group of 3 motorcycles in the canyon 2 weeks ago. I told them to let me go 1st as I had a radar detector on my bike. They didn't listen, went on ahead at 60. I laggd 1/4 mile behind - They got tickets. When I pulled up, the trooper told me he never got me on radar and I was free to leave......Just a theory, we need more of the story....

If you have the time/inclination: Find out what distance/interval the marks on the road are supposed to be at, then measure/verify that distance. Then ask what instrument/device was used to time the speed, and call it's service/calibration/operator into question.

You would be surprised how often things like that are well off the intended "mark" (as in: good enough for gov't work). I recently beat a highway "work zone" ticket by that very tactic. The distance that the semi-permanent signage for entering/leaving work area was way off. Case dismissed.

i think you guys are forgetting the fact that nobody can win against this a-hole judge in ellensburg.

Gee...pretty much every ticket I have received...I was obeying the law (but had out-of-state plates). I have tried to fight several with no success...even once after proving that the speed limit posted was not what the officer cited. It is just not worth the effort. IMHO, there is no "fair" trial for traffic tickets.

i think the best strategy is to turn this into a media frenzy and get the big news teams to cover it. too bad the seattle pi went out of business as they would have loved to run a special investigative report on the speed ticket scam around here.

Sadly, you are right. As a previous long-time King Co. resident with a few not-so-fond memories of Eastern WA, I have to agree. But if you can prove technical flaws/inconsistencies, and STILL get the ticket, you have a bit more ammo for said media outreach (yeah, and good luck with all that too).

I remember trying to drive through Wenatchee eons ago during the annual Apple Blossom Festival (street party) when a few drunkards momentarily hopped on my jeep (was going all of about 2mph in a line of traffic). I was immediately pulled over and cited for "too many occupants in the vehicle." I fought it, stating that there was no way on Earth that I could have predicted, or prevented random strangers from jumping on my vehicle. I still lost. So these guys (probably locals) aren't cited for drunk & disorderly, etc. but I get a ticket for too many occupants? are you f'n kidding me? Nice... :rolleyes:

perhaps we need to fight back by video taping the cops breaking the law.

i was coming up to a stop light the other day. i was getting in the right turn lane. there was a cop just ahead of me in the far left lane. the light turned yellow and he could not make it. so he he darted across the lane next to him and dove in the turn lane just in front of me. then as soon as he could, he turned left and shot across all 4 lanes including a center turn lane and went out the other right turn lane and back on the original road he was on, just because he did not want ot sit at the light. yea, i know what he would claim if stopped. "i was on a call". but if he was, he could have just put his light on and gone thru the red light, there was only 1 or 2 other cars at the intersection.

we also have a litter law. i saw a cop through a ciggertte out his window at a light. i told him that was not right and he would give me a ticket if i did that. he just gave me smart comment back, dont remember what. they can and will ticket you here for doing the same.

Exactly. The actual facts of any given case are not even of passing interest to Bob. If his cops say you did it, you did it. End of story. Any of these suggested fact-finding missions are sure to be a waste of time, and will only add to the frustration.

On a side note, this guy has been at it for an awfully long time over there. A strong case for the Peter Principle (sorry nize, I didn't come up with the name....:p) if I ever did see one. I don't think he will ever be anything more than a municiple court judge, assigned to traffic. He is that uncaring, inattentive, and incompetent. He does, however, have just the right mix of zealous self-righteousness and contempt for the citizen.

Bob:

I did come up from Yakima—but the ticket is expressly for doing 86mph in a 70mph zone on the I-90 east of Ellensburg. I also stopped in Ellensburg for dinner—so wrong time line. But thanks for the thought.

I've now discussed this with lawyers, and have requested the ATC logs for the day in question. These have been promised to me by today—but I'm not holding my breath.

In view of all that Jeff has written about "balance of probability" (ie. the cops word over mine) being the standard of proof, and Judge Bob etc., and after speaking to WA counsel—my current inclination is to only pursue this legally if it turns out there was no aircraft in the sky at that time (which I still think was the case). If I was right in this—then I will go all out to try to nail this swine to the wall., and that will include some relevant media exposure.

I'll keep you posted.

the video thing is pretty good..
if you have it handy..
if , he has clicked his 'attitude ' button ...
one moment sir..Dottore date/time ..rolling..
had a Barney/ wanna B Swat flunkie..
start with me in MY driveway..
expired Insp. ticket..told the wife..get it..
it was Sir.Sir..night and day difference...
I got & paid the ticket..
I know all of his partners..real good guys..
even they note he's an newbie a$$..
I'm on his list for sure..FK him

Rika

what's the update on this? anything?

Good luck Dottore. I had a pistol confiscated by a Kittitas County deputy about 17 years ago for shooting into a river bank on the 4th of July. Unfortunately, I was just inside a state park. Nearly 2 years passed & I heard nothing, so I called the sheriffs office to inquire about getting my pistol back. I was sent a summons for the criminal charge of 2nd degree reckless endangerment a few weeks later.

I made a few appointments with local attorneys on the day of my arraignment, one of them called me the night before & canceled. His name was Beckenridge or something like that. I got kind of pissy with him & hung up.

The next day I showed up for court, the judge laughed me out of the courtroom when I asked for a dismissal. When I exited the courtroom, there was an older lady in the lobby fuming about her son getting railroaded. She was a waitress across the street from the court & said that the judge, prosecutor, & local defense attorneys all came over after work to drink together. She said they were all greedy crooks that made deals to profit themselves.

I asked her about the three attorneys I had appointments with later that day & she told me that all of them were part of the kangaroo court. Then I asked about the attorney who had canceled the appointment. She said that he was the only honest attorney in the county.

I went over to his office, apologized profusely & begged him to take my case. He agreed & I paid the $1000 retainer. Six months later, I had to forfeit my pistol, pay $200 court costs, $1000 in attorney fees, & the charges were dropped. That was an expensive lesson.

Maybe a good attorney can get this reduced to an illegal helmet violation or something.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/482653-tell-me-its-not-about-money.html

There's no news really. I ticked the box on the back of the ticket indicating my intention to dispute, and sent this in.

I have not heard from them since.

The only other news is that there was apparently an aircraft in the sky. However at the time my ticket was issued (and shortly before) the only car spotted speeding by the aircraft (according to the aircraft log) was a "black vehicle". My Porsche is light metallic green with a bright blue roof—(see pics up thread). (And I still maintain there was no aircraft anywhere near me when I was stopped.)

I've since had several conversations with the state police and highway patrol and the court. I have made it clear that I am disputing the ticket and that I will also go to the media with this story. My impression from all of the conversations is that this ticket was fabricated, and that everyone is hoping I will go away.

I have decided not to use local counsel, and will defend myself instead. Why? I used to do a lot of serious litigation at one time and I think I'm going to enjoy this—if they haven't already dropped the thing.

Mark - I live about 20 minutes west of Ellensburg. Get ahold of me when you're down B4 you go to court. I have plenty of stories about the County Gov't in Kittitas Co; none very encouraging for you.

Also, If you we're heading east to get to Wenatchee, you were taking the long route.

Thanks Bob. Will do.

And yes I was taking the long road to Wenatchee.