What would be a better Autocross car?
 

I am looking for a beater to run autocross in to save the paint on my precious 944. I have kinda narrowed my sights on a 914 or a MkI GTI. I know the cost of entry will be close on both and the parts will be cheaper for the GTI. But in the end will the handling of the 914 make the cost worth it? Or should I just buy a good GTI put some suspension on and drive it like I stole it?

Tough question. I'd say both the 944 and 914 have an edge on the VW GTI due to the rwd layout.

But the GTI has more power than the 914, unless you are seeking a modified 914.

I can tell you at the last NNJR PCA autocross, a modified 914 took the top honors (Fastest Time of the Day). Smokin' hot driver, and a well setup car. I have NEVER seen a GTI take FTD in any autocross.

-Z-man.

I'd say get a beater 944. There are tons for sale for $3k and under, you're familiar with how they handle, and you'll have lots of competition. If you're in PCA, compete in GS, GP or 944 Spec and you'll have a serious load of fun.

A reasonable 914 won't be as cheap or competitive as a 944.

Not sure what risk there is to paint in an autocross but the 914 would wax a 944 or GTI.

JR

I retract what I said about 944's beating 914's. All things being equal, the 914 should beat the 944. Looking back at the results of my last AX I see that 914's took 5th (AM), 13th (AI), 16th (AI) fastest. Fastest 944 was 19th (944 Spec).

x2. You have a good autocross car, just drive it.

+3, the chance to mess up your paint is about as likely as hitting a zebra

Check the history of Porsche Parade autocrosses. More often than not, the TTOD car is a 914...

Check this out:

http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=143731

This guy has built a great AX car out of a 914, and is priced at, what I think, is a steal.

What, no miata option (which would be better than the 914 and GTI)? Cheap, reliable (bottom end from a turbo car similar to an SC), cheaper parts, lots of aftermarket support including factory support. You can purchase parts from Mazda's racing stuff if you've got 2 autoX under your belt, I think is the rule.

When miata's show up at autox I attend, they leave everyone for dead. Between your choices, 914 would have to be the way to go... but your paint should be fine in an autox...

914s perform well for a 40 year old design but unless you want to spend big dollars and time you won't be winning your class at a SCCA a/x. Ask me how I know.;)

get a go cart

Can't the 914 take a larger porsche motor?

You can fit 911s motors in 914s. You can fit V-8s in 914s. I think you can get just about anything you want in one. I think SBCs aren't uncommon. I think I've also heard of Cadillac Northstar V-8s in them.

Lots of good ideas here, but they all depend on one unanswered question:

What class do you want to run?

Just drive your 944 and stop being a pansy, cars are meant to be driven.

I Autocrossed my 911 quite a few times I did less damage to the paint hitting cones than I do to it when I took road trips to the mountains with it. I AX my RX7, which when I started 8 years ago had pristine paint. Guess what, the paint is not shot from Autocrossing its shot from being old. I am about to drop it off for a repaint and I fully intend on AXing it once its done.

The money you will drop on another car, sorting it out mechanically, then upgrading it to be competitive (where you could have done the same to the 944) then buy tires for it....... yada....

You could get the 944 painted again and again.

I vote AX the 944 and stop worrying about the cone rash, it waxes off. Even better don't hit them. :D

With a LOT of work done on it. A stock 914 with the 4 cyl engine is a roach. I've had 2, one was a full on race car. It took 10 grand and a year's worth of work to make it work. Won it's class the first time out at AX under new ownership. I never AX'd it, only DE. With 130HP and at 2000 lb., they are fine. That's far from stock.

TTOD 914's are usually flat out GT class race cars.

I am with milt on this one, If you are looking for a budget auto x car, the GTI is the way to go. While a sorted 914 is a super fast auto cross car, you will spend a small fortune getting it there. Unless you buy someones already set up car. Stock 4 cyl 914's were pretty slow at our local auto crosses.
I hand grenaded my sc a while back, and while I was reassembling ( 2 years), I ran a 1991 16V GTI. I think I spent about $1500.00 on it , to set it up, and it was a blast to drive, easy to drive, and was fairly competive. I ran the snot out of it for 2 seasons, broke one motor mount, and ate one set of tires. I think my set up was real simple, H@R sport springs, koni sports, a large rear addco sway bar, lots of negative camber ( $15 crash bolts ) and victoracers. While I never FTD'd, I was usually pretty close to the fast guys, and this car was an absoloute blast . Add a limited slip, and you are really talking. Just my .02

For cheap AutoX, I'm under the impression that Miatas are the way to go. No matter what though, cones won't hurt your car. Unless you think your car is like a concours car or something.

Miata. Nuff said

Miata. They are not just for hairdressers anymore. LE or M edition.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1244244191.jpg

914 - Nuff said

Went to an open wheel event one time and talked to some guys that were racing cars that looked like old 70's model Indy cars... they told me that they were made out of 914's... ever since then, I wanted one, but can't remember what they called them...

I thought that until one came flying at me while I was doing 130mph on the main straight at Pacific Raceways.

The 944 right in front of me kicked up a cone that had just enough hang time to hit my 944's nose panel.

The verdict? Cones can hurt your car.

Still no need to worry about cones at autocross speeds.

Mr2?

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My last a/x. Finished top 5 in a field of 68.
Not bad after a 14 month break.

I had TTOD after this run, but got edged out in the afternoon.
1st-5th places were within .75 secs :)


KT

Ok here is why I dont want to run the 944. I know I shouldnt tear up the paint but having just put 3grand worth of paint on it I'd rather not risk it.

Ok. So that puts me on the hunt. I am seeing 914s in the 1500-2k range that are so-so and could use a rebuild with pricey Porsche parts. But I missed a 750$ GTI that already had suspension setup and only needed a diet to be fairly competitive. Plus VW rabbit parts are dirt cheap in comparison to Porsche.

I am not looking to make FTD at this point. Just something that it wont bother me if I crash through the cones and spin out into the mud(Possible at OKC).

So maybe I should just watch and whichever comes up first I go with?

I say it depends on your budget and how you treat autocrossing. Do you just do it for enjoyment, or do you take it mega seriously? If you want to build a brutally fast autocross car, I say get the 914 and put a lot of money into it. You'll have a blisteringly fast car, and furthermore, it's a Porsche :) If you just want a car that you can flog on the track and not have to worry about, I say get an old miata or something like a GTI. Personally, I think either way I'd go with a miata. If I blew the engine on my 914, I'd probably cry. If I blew the engine on my miata, I'd probably laugh and hope someone videotaped it.

Sorry but no Miata. Just no.


Right now I am on a budget.

hahah, understandable. They are a very fun car, but they definitely get their share of comments. If you're on a budget I say just make a list of inexpensive, lightweight, cheap to modify cars that have a good history at autocrossing and narrow it down. 924Ss are also good cars for C stock if I remember correctly. Older honda civics are a dime a dozen, run forever, and are very cheap to modify. A BMW E30 318is might be another candidate, while a bit lower in power than the 325, the handling is supposed to be very good, and you can get those in good running shape for practically a dime a dozen. For that matter, the 325is would be a good one also.

People autox their brand new $100k cars. I think you're being too paranoid. Just use the 944 - it's not some priceless jewel.

"Our cars are meant to be driven, not polished." - Ferry Porsche

Yes they do!
One of my students brought out his brand new GT2 to our recent PCA a/x school.
Still had the dealer plates on it.


KT

I drive the piss out of my car. However I would rather have something else to use as an autocross/track rat.

He'd autocross his dad's Corrado. :D

You sound like you have my luckiness :p

Dad's Corrado is having the supercharger rebuilt. It is also sort of becoming my daily beater as it has some pretty serious door dings already. I am really wanting a car that I can strip the interior out of and stiffen up and use almost exclusivily for autocross.

So it's PRE-DINGED... perfect! :eek:

I just answered the Einstein question... you will have to work out the details, dude.
;)


Seriously... you know the old man is probably ripe for a new ride... encourage him to go visit a few dealerships and take some test drives.

Tell him you think he'd look great in a convertible. :cool:

The old man has more rides than he can shake a stick at. Thing is if I start dailying it then I don't wanna run the risk of toasting the motor at autocross and put myself afoot.


Tis complicated. Hence my need for a third ride.

I'm getting the feeling you have not done much autocrossing.

Paint/body damage and mechanical damage are very rare.


KT