Tankless water heaters... yeah or nay ?

[Deschodt]

I've had this thought about replacing my 10+ year old & inneficient water heaters with new tankless ones... One upstairs, one in the garage, taking tons of space..

The rationale is that the old tanks are "on" many times a day to keep the water warm. They are sometimes set too low and promote bacteria in there... They can leak (got one upstairs, would be bad), and finally they are huge... I could stack 4 fuchs and R-compound tires where the tank is !

The tankless supposedly is way more energy efficient since it's only in use when you need hot water, has an unlimited supply of warm water since it warms it up as you go, it's incredibly tiny, and in FL anyway, I can get by with a cheap $400 unit since my "cold "water is already at 75F, in winter ;-)

Problem is my trusted plumber has installed a few already and he says they are crap... The water temperature fluctuates, the delivery time for hot water is not all that fast, and the units have broken and had to be replaced twice in almost every house he's done it to ! Something about the unit dying if the water supply got interrupted, too, but there should be a safety feature in there.... So he stopped recommending it, even though he's make a buck on the install!

Anyone here done it ? Any opinions ? Brands that are known to be bad/good.. Just asking on the off chance someone here is an expert ;-)

[porsche4life]

Get a good one and you will love it. My dad put a small one in the new office and its great. Makes hot enough water for a hot shower in OK in the winter.

[flatbutt]

well if you spend $400 thats what you get. My Norge was $3000 including installation and set up. The temp does NOT fluctuate and the time to run up is about the same as the old heater. Instant hot? No. Endless hot? Yes. About 1 year into service and no issues.

[Deschodt]

It's not that I'm cheap... I looked at the units for sale here and there and for my weather (mild to effing hot and humid), they all recommend the smallest units... $300 to $900 max...

If I were to spend $3000, the whole scenario would not make sense to me, it'd take 60 years to recoup my investment ;-) Kinda hoping for a solution somewhere in the middle... That Norge is surely a nice unit but probably overkill for me, given where you live and where I live (and I need 2 ;-) !

Anyone in hotter climates maybe ?

[porsche4life]

What brand is the 900 one?

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

What brand is the 900 one?

Couldn't tell you, I looked at Home depot and Lowes to get a ball park idea... Pretty sure I'd buy a different brand outside of those 2 stores though, maybe Rinnai or something like that, I've heard they are good... I'm actually asking you guys for a good brand - but not something overkill for my climate ;-)

Edit: Went and looked.. Powerstar or Rheem, essentially... But that does me little good...

[fingpilot]

Ask what the temp rise is at various flows. Had one that when I slowed the flow down, was OK, but the 'quality' of the shower suffered. It eventually swallowed a bubble (bad thang) and instantly fried.

Home Depot gave me a store credit which I used on a tank heater.

YMMV.

If you notice the ads at the bottom of this page, they are tied to the subject line. You could always 'click-thru'- and Wayne gets a dime.

[dad911]

I have a Stiebel Eltron Tempra 29 in vacation house in Florida. Love it, unlimited HW for showers, and filling a large (120 gallon) jacuzzi tub.

Keeps up with 2 showers running, 3/4" feed lines to each, body jets, etc.

Bought it from gotankless.com, without problem.

[vash]

rinnai or takage(?). i got a rinnai. it is absolutely awesome. i bought an exterior mounted one. it needs a dedicated gas line (code) therefore setting it right near my meter was a no brainer + it saved me the $$ of cat 3, exhaust. the rinnai i got comes with a remote sensor that allows me to change temp, just like any heater or AC. it also gives me a flush code that tells me when i need to flush the system out. my water bill dropped 40%. i also save some money with water, because my shower gets hot in about 10 seconds. (in close proximity). i dont have to let it run and waste much water. i paid $3000 installed.

the only downside? in a blackout, i get no hot water. (and debatable aesthetics with a small water heater hanging on the outside of my home.)

[cairns]

Second the Rennai. It's worked flawlessly for over a year now. Make certain your installer knows WTF he's doing. We got a number of quotes and were surprised at the level of ignorance out there. A few plumbers were even quoting outdated Rennai's (and other brands) and were not authorized installers.

[Heel n Toe]

Talk to some other plumbers... I have never heard the things yours is telling you. Ask some friends and neighbors if they have tankless and who their plumber is.

Another thing; you don't need to buy the UltraTurboExtra model unless you plan to frequently have people showering in different bathrooms simultaneously or showering at the same time the dishwasher is running.

I plan to look at tankless when our water heater dies. We don't even have enough water pressure to have two showers going at the same time, so we'll only need the base model.

Good luck... they're supposed to be great energy savers.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by vash

my water bill dropped 40%.

i also save some money with water, because my shower gets hot in about 10 seconds. (in close proximity). i dont have to let it run and waste much water. i paid $3000 installed.

vash, by that first statement, didn't you mean to say your utility bill dropped 40%?

The reason I asked is because you mentioned water savings in the second statement, and I think I've heard tankless can provide energy savings in the 40% (or higher) range.

[rfuerst911sc]

I personally think a solar water heater is a better investment especially in sunny climate. If you are looking at tankless I think gas powered is the way to go not electric.

[jyl]

My friend has a tankless gas heater in SF and loves it, only good things to say. Sorry, no details. I can't justify switching as my tank heater is almost new. Some good incentives too, depending on location.

[imcarthur]

My research has 'told' me to steer clear of the Depot units - Bosch usually - and stick with Asian units - Rinnai, Takagi etc. Gas contractors & plumbers have told me the same.

Ian

[Porsche_monkey]

I think they are more practical in the south where the water is warmer when it arrives, in the north our water is much colder and needs a lot more energy to shower under.

[Deschodt]

I guess the "swallow a bubble" is what killed them... I may have misquoted the plumber.. Something about putting them lower than the lines so that if the water pressure goes away the thing does not fry... Anyway he was saying they all fried in short order once or twice...

I suppose I'd better investigate warranties and the like... Can't go gas, gotta be electric... $3000 also would make no sense for us, too long to recoup and our water heaters are not broken - I don;t need to replace it, I just want to save space/electricity... I'll check out the Rinnai then, I've heard they were good. Hopefully the warmer climate around here will be good for something ! Thanks !

[vash]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

vash, by that first statement, didn't you mean to say your utility bill dropped 40%?

The reason I asked is because you mentioned water savings in the second statement, and I think I've heard tankless can provide energy savings in the 40% (or higher) range.

right! sorry, typing while boss was walking by. utility bill dropped by 40%

[mackskibum]

Have had a Rinnai for about 6 months- did the install myself. Is a gas unit, and IIRC the electric units are inherently less expensive. Do your own research- my supplier said that the Bosch units are on par with the Rinnai- Rinnai was in stock. Make sure that the unit has the ability for the temperature rise you need- inlet temp to max desired output temp. Ours is set at 135F to feed the dishwasher. Look at the specs- they are temp rise vs.flow. IMHO go 1-2 sizes larger and you won't have an issue.

The economics are goofy. There almost has to be another driving factor to have these make sense- especially if you are hiring out the install. Either space, enviro concerns, or the "cool factor" have to drive this- a HE standard unit will cost less over its lifetime when all costs are factored in.

Our driving issues were space and $4.50/gallon heating oil- our furnace provided hot water to the tune of $160/month last summer.

Good luck in your decision.

Dave

[RWebb]

for me, the economics was getting the gas co. to put in a free line to my house - would've been $3,000+ otherwise

I also save ~$30/month on my bill now, with the nice Rinnai

BUT, the kitchen runs cold water for 3 minutes....

bath is fine