This is a first: Gas quality trips Stabiltrak Service Light on Saturn Outlook

MotoSook · 01:14 PM

Wifey took the 2008 Outlook into the dealer because the Stabilitrak Service note came on with a Check Engine light. The vehicle has 18,000 miles on it and is still under warranty.

She texted me and said the service guy told her it's bad gas and thus the stability control showed a fault. HUH!?

So I texted her back and told her to get the service writer on the phone.

The guy tells me it's because of bad gas and the Octane was similar to E85. I was the last one to put gas in the car, and I put in 89 Octane gas. The E85 sold at the same gas station (Gas City) is pumped at the other end of the gas station in dedicated pumps. I also asked if they had an Octane tester to test it...and he said yes (I doubt this). [Wifey told them the light came on after I gas up the vehicle. So maybe they keyed off of this]

Guy tells me it's running lean and hence the stability control light. Something didn't compute, and he told me there is a tech bulletin about it, and said he'd give my wife a copy before she leaves. I said I wanted him to read it to me over the phone to avoid a repeat visit. He kept implying that he would print it out. I said no..so he puts another guy (the tech) on the phone to explain the problem.

The tech tells me it's a lean running condition and the computer system throttles back (or soemthing) thus affecting the stability control system. This still didn't make sense, but the tech said it has happened to others before and to drive the tank empty and see if it goes away! Service writer comes on again and I ask about the tech bulletin, but now he said there is none. I asked the tech too and he said there is none. What could I do...I'm at the office and they were not going to do anything else to the car.

What a load of crap. This is why I won't let the wife take the car in. I figured this would be simple, so when she offered last night I didn't say anything. I can't find anything on the net about this cause-effect with the Outlook. After I gased up the vehicle last night there was no degradation in performance, but the light came on a couple of times between the gas station and the house, 3 miles drive.

I'm going to go buy the Gas City tonight and ask the station attendent if they had any complaints about gas mix-ups. Who know, the tanker driver could have screwed up. He/she probably won't admit it, but I will make it clear that I will be back with the repair bill if there has been a screw-up. I usually never gas up at Gas City...but figure it's the Saturn and not the 911 or BMW which require 91+ octane.

I'll read the OBD myself tonight and see what it shows, but I can't think of any reason why the dealer would try to skimp or avoid this warranty work since it's not coming out of their pocket. I've never been confident about any dealer work, warranty or not. If I have to go back to that dealership because they didn't do their job the owner and I are going to have some words.

Back Story: I ordered this particular vehicle from a clean order sheet because the wifey wanted certain combinations not found on the lot, and when I picked it up it had a big scratch on the lift gas by the license plate area deep enough to cut through the clear coat and into the paint. I was not happy. I shouldn't have to take time and effort to deal with this (dealer paid to have the lift gate painted) on a car the dealer paid no money to purchase and store on the lot!

On top of this, the vehicle was delivered with 7-9 miles on the odometer (dealer delivery receipt off truck), but there was 20-something miles on it when I took it off the lot! So the dealer let people test drive it. I didn't notice this until I was home after the purchase.

When I had the vehicle in for recall service (wiper linkage upgrade) they didn't put all the rubber molding under the hood back in place. I didn't notice this until I washed the car a day or two later. I fixed this myself because it was easy and I sure wasn't going to waste half a day taking the vehicle back to the dealer. I also had them do an oil change while it was in for the recall. The area around the filler was dirty and gritty. There's no telling what debris dropped in the engine during the service. Just sloppy work.

oophf!

Anyone had Stabiltrak problems on a GM product?

onewhippedpuppy · 08-03-2009, 01:32 PM

Sorry, that's what you get for buying GM. My wife had a Cadillac SRX that had a clunk when getting on/off the gas at about 65 MPH. Think old truck with a bad u-joint, that kind of clunk. I did some research online and found that there was a TSB to reflash the transmission ECU in the 2004 V8 SRX. It was still under warranty, I took the thing in and the dealer claimed that there was no TSB. After I gave him the TSB number, he found it. They performed the TSB, and while the shift quality improved the clunk was still there.

After doing further research, I found reports of excessive gear last in early 2004 SRX transfer cases. My SRX was within the range for build date and VIN. Further, there was an improved transfer case with a different PN that was introduced to fix the issue. There were multiple online owner reports of this new transfer case fixing their clunk. I took the SRX back in, they claimed there was no new transfer case. After showing them the PNs they finally admitted the fact that there was another transfer case, and took mine into the back shop to check the PN. After 15 minutes or so the tech comes back to the service writer's desk, but he has a print-out with the new PN. The service writer claimed that my SRX had the new transfer case, and that the clunk was normal. Totally not buying his BS, I drove home, jacked it up, and checked for myself. Sure enough, it was the old PN transfer case. Now I was pissed, because the worthless SOBs had lied to me. So I went back.

I ended up with the service manager who apologized for the "mistake", but told me that the tech "is one of our best". Reassuring, huh? I showed him the issue, he admitted that it was not normal. He promised to check with engineering support and get back to me. Finally after a few days I called him. He had no answers, but proposed a solution to me. The dealer would tear down the transfer case and see if it was within tolerances. If it was not, GM would pay for a new one. If it was, I would have to pay them. At this point I basically lost it. The transfer case was a POOR DESIGN, even when built to spec it was WRONG. I eventually told them that they would never receive my business again, and tried a different dealer. Dealer #2 was honest, but told me that GM would not pay for such a "minor" issue without a recall or TSB. I gave up and just sold the damn thing, at 60k it was already starting to leak from nearly every seal and gasket. Bear in mind that this is the treatment I received driving a nearly new Cadillac that sold for $50k brand new.

So, in summary, sell your GM and buy something made in Japan. That's what I did, it was a great decision.

ErVikingo · 08-03-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Anyone had Stabiltrak problems on a GM product?

Yes, 2007 Denali clean sheet build also. Mine was caused by a faulty "crankshaft position sensor".

Explanation is that since Stabilitrak cuts back on power if it doesn't know exactly what the engine is doing, it cannot operate properly.

Gogar · 08-03-2009, 01:46 PM

Stop asking questions, sir. You're disrupting the order of things.

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 01:48 PM

Matt, believe me when I say that I was not too thrilled at the thought of buying GM. The wifey wanted a big vehicle for our big family, and the Outlook met our requirements without going to a must detested-by-wife minivan or full size van. I even offered to buy here a BMW 740! But she HAD TO HAVE a big vehicle so that we wouldn't haev to take two cars when we went somewhere as a family.

I have never ever been happy with new car dealers. They are worst than used car dealers IMO...at least with a use car dealer, I expect to be screwed if I don't do my homework. This was the first vehicle I ever bought new off a dealer...and will likely be the last. If the wifey doesn't want a BMW or a Merc ... she can walk

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErVikingo

Yes, 2007 Denali clean sheet build also. Mine was caused by a faulty "crankshaft position sensor".

Explanation is that since Stabilitrak cuts back on power if it doesn't know exactly what the engine is doing, it cannot operate properly.

This is essentially what the tech indicated (power change -> Stabilitrak problem). With the multitude of causes of power change, I find it hard to believe that the GM engineers could have tied a safty feature into a lumped together list of causes. Sheet..like I'm surprised!

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

Stop asking questions, sir. You're disrupting the order of things.

You think I'll disrupt the order of things enough when I go screeching into the service writer's bay with tracking control disabled and pull a 180 with the e-brake then burn enough rubber to set off the sprinklers?

Everytime I have to deal with dealerships and autoshops...I lose hope for manhind. Could the general population be this dumb to turn out such idiots..and for such idiots to have gotten away with it so manytimes with other idiots that they think it's SOP? Makes me want to cry.

onewhippedpuppy · 02:12 PM

Rumor has it that the "average American" happily writes checks for hundreds of dollars to do routine maintenance on their cars. No thanks. I've only taken vehicles to dealerships to do warranty work, and have never been impressed. That's never, as in hasn't happened. My best experience at a dealership pales in comparison to the few times I have dealt with a respected independent shop.

It's funny, you'd think that these guys would jump at warranty work. It's basically guaranteed pay. Or maybe the problem is that they don't jump at ANY form of work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Matt, believe me when I say that I was not too thrilled at the thought of buying GM. The wifey wanted a big vehicle for our big family, and the Outlook met our requirements without going to a must detested-by-wife minivan or full size van. I even offered to buy here a BMW 740! But she HAD TO HAVE a big vehicle so that we wouldn't haev to take two cars when we went somewhere as a family.

I have never ever been happy with new car dealers. They are worst than used car dealers IMO...at least with a use car dealer, I expect to be screwed if I don't do my homework. This was the first vehicle I ever bought new off a dealer...and will likely be the last. If the wifey doesn't want a BMW or a Merc ... she can walk

My wifey is the same way. I ended up talking her into a minvan (Mazda MPV). Better interior space, better MPG, better to drive. She really wanted a Nissan Armada, which I probably could have dealt with (shhhhh, don't tell her

). Outlook is nice, but I now have a deep distrust for GM vehicles.

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 02:13 PM

I'm just hoping they're not playing some game to get repeated visits so they can paid more because it is warranty work.

onewhippedpuppy · 08-03-2009, 02:28 PM

Oh no, I believe their stupidity is quite genuine.

ErVikingo · 08-03-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

If the wifey doesn't want a BMW or a Merc ... she can walk

From my experience, both BMW and Merc have made someone in my immediate circle of friends walk at some point in time.

If you don't want headaches you must go Japanese regretfully. At least BMW you get "free" maintenance.

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 02:42 PM

Merc has 24 hr roadside assistance. Haven't had to use it ( my pops has an '06 230 Sport). My '02 BMW 530i is rock solid and I bought it used. I do mostly all my own work so I don't fuss over small repairs. The Outlook was suppose to be worry free for a few years at least, not at 18000 miles.

Britwrench · 08-03-2009, 05:03 PM

I only use Shell, Chevron or Texaco and always advise customers to do the same.
We just dealt with a poor quality fuel problem in a Boxster, it wasn't cheap to fix.

Regarding the warning lights coming on, I can believe that, if the system doesn't run as it should, then the computers in CAN-BUS vehicles will work together and make the vehicle, at least, driveable (the limp home mode).

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 06:39 PM

I always use Shell or Mobil in my cars...but the wifey uses what ever. She especially loves Walmart gas since she gets a discount on that. I wasn't too concerned about it since her car is not a high performance car, and I've always told her to at least use 89 Octane. Well heck the one time I gas it up for her at a station I wouldn't go to...this happens. I really hope it's just the fuel. I'll keep topping if off with better quality gas to see if the problem goes away.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

Dump a little Octane booster in there. Just not NOS lol

My dad gets good service on his Dodges but that is only because his buddy is the service manager and is a very good mechanic. Everything else goes to the independent shops.

MotoSook · 08-03-2009, 08:09 PM

The thing is that E85 has higher octane than regular gas! I really think the service people were full of it and were merely mentioning bits of tech infor here and there to explain something that they believe will go away.... Since the Stabilitrak fault is caused by so many things, it may take a failure, not just a warning, for them to know for sure. I just hope it's not too far down the road when I'm out of warranty.

I'll investigate this further with my code reader and simple old school wrenching. I'm just disappointed with my new car experience. Now I know I won't sell any of my other cars!