Military Uniforms - theatre of the absurd

[74-911]

Politics as usual:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. troops routinely face the threat of roadside bombs while fighting insurgencies in Afghanistan. They need the most protective clothing the market can bear, and they're getting it -- for now.

North Carolina State University College of Textiles tests the flammability of different materials at this facility.
Back home, a battle is brewing in Congress over the next lucrative contract for military uniforms. The issue boils down to the raw fiber used in their construction.

Current uniforms are made in the United States, in Georgia, using a fabric called Defender M made by the TenCate company. It is favored by the military for its fire-resistant and breathable properties.

But the fabric is made with a type of rayon imported from Austria -- which normally would violate the military's buy-American requirement.

This specific rayon cannot be produced in the United States for environmental reasons, so Congress passed an amendment allowing it to be temporarily imported. The extension expires, or "sunsets," in 2013, but that year's defense budget is being determined now. The idea of the sunset is to give U.S. manufactures time to come up with a comparable product.

At stake: a defense contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

The rest of the article:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/06/military.uniform.contract/index.html

[Porsche-O-Phile]

This is bullcrap.

We should be allowing an exemption to whatever stupid law is making it impossible to legally produce here instead.

How do ideas like this even get out of committee?

[Seahawk]

The laws governing federal acquisition, many political gerrymandering of the acquisition rules to directly benefit constituents, make the Dead Sea Scrolls look like a comic book.

Military budgets are often built by Congressional Staffs without traceability to need.

[widebody911]

What does China have to do with all of this?

I have a hard time believing that the only acceptable fiber is made overseas. Like Seahawk sez, there's probably some weird acquisition rule in place.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by 74-911

But the fabric is made with a type of rayon imported from Austria -- which normally would violate the military's buy-American requirement.

This is the part I find very hard to believe. Austria is probably the greenest, most environmentally conscious country in Europe. How can it be legal to make something there that it's illegal for environmental reasons to make here? It's bad enough we spend billions on their Glocks for our cops.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

My bad - misread it. Even so, what the hell? I don't care if it's Austria or Mexico or Canada or the UK or Taiwan or Korea - it should be made HERE.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

My bad - misread it. Even so, what the hell? I don't care if it's Austria or Mexico or Canada or the UK or Taiwan or Korea - it should be made HERE.

Absolutely.

There has to be a couple of pieces of this puzzle that we're not seeing.

[JTO]

I was process chemist at Ketchikan Pulp Company and the inventor of a chlorine-free bleaching sequence for dissolving pulp. Dissolving pulp is used to manufacture rayon. The pulp we made at KPC was world-renowned for its ability to be spun into very long rayon fibers because its impurity level was very low. The Feds under Clinton forced the shut-down of KPC citing all kinds of water quality violations (most of which were brought to the EPA by a whistle blower that was miffed because he was fired for falsifying documents - I was there and can vouch for that fact). Also Clinton and the greenies didn't want harvest on the Tongass (even though KPC contract area was a measly 500K acres of the 17 million acre forest).
We can make rayon in this country but we have shut down the remaining dissolving pulp manufacturers. We'd have to buy the raw material from overseas anyway.

Austria is home of Lenzing that is one of the premier rayon manufacturers in the world. They also have a world-class dissolving pulp mill in Lenzing

[J-P]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

It's bad enough we spend billions on their Glocks for our cops.

I beleive those particular Glocks are made in Georgia just for the reasons you bring the subject up.

Similar to what the U.S. govt. did when they selected the Beretta 9mm as the issue sidearm; Italian weapon with a contract specifying manufacture in the U.S.

Profits still leave the country, though.

[Superman]

It is nearly impossible to find apparel made in the United States. As a union rep, we look for t-shirts and other items as giveaways at conventions, etc. Yes, it is possible to find apparel made in the US, but just barely.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by JTO

The Feds under Clinton

I doubt Clinton had anything to do with this

forced the shut-down of KPC citing all kinds of water quality violations (most of which were brought to the EPA by a whistle blower that was miffed because he was fired for falsifying documents -

So did they or did they not violate enviro rules? An employee who didn't help hide the violations has nothing to do with said violations.

[JTO]

Bill personally signed the letter to the US Forest Circus calling for the end of the long term timber contract.

Yes, KPC did violate their discharge permit in a couple of instances. These violations were not willful like the whistle-blower asserted. Instead they were caused by equipment malfunctions. But that didn't matter. They were violations and just one of the tools used to pressure the mill to close.

Having a profitable company shut down by politics is a shame. KPC made money every month and the demand for the high-grade pulp was consistent. We were good for the trade imbalance in that most of our pulp was shipped to Europe, Asia, etc.

Its a long sad story with all kinds of subtle details and "he said, she said" aspects. Overall, I just think we should be making stuff in this country and not outsourcing everything or relying on China to supply the chain. That's bad for us as a country and bad for the global environment.
Troy

[JTO]

As further evidence of Clinton's direct involvment in killing wood products in this country is the roadless rule he pushed for and got in 1992. This was a direct effort to basically make logging in the Tongass impossible since there were no roads to access the timber sales. That bill just got re-upped.

Troy

[gt350mike]

I say this story on a military news channels a few days ago and the way I understand the situation is that there are not any American companies that have developed a material that performs as good or better than the fabric being manufactured in Austria. I'm sure that the military is paying American companies/universities to develop a better material, but as it stands today, nobody has anything available that can be mass produced.

[m21sniper]

That's nonsense mike.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Where is Dragon Skin made?

I realize that is probably too expensive for a standard-issue uniform, but it does raise the question...

[gt350mike]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

That's nonsense mike.

It makes perfect sense....... Nobody in the US can manufacture material that is as flame resistant as the material purchased from overseas. If an American company could at least match the performance, don't you think the military would award the contract to them verses a foreign company?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by JTO

Bill personally signed the letter to the US Forest Circus calling for the end of the long term timber contract.

Yes, KPC did violate their discharge permit in a couple of instances. These violations were not willful like the whistle-blower asserted. Instead they were caused by equipment malfunctions. But that didn't matter. They were violations and just one of the tools used to pressure the mill to close.

Having a profitable company shut down by politics is a shame. KPC made money every month and the demand for the high-grade pulp was consistent. We were good for the trade imbalance in that most of our pulp was shipped to Europe, Asia, etc.

Its a long sad story with all kinds of subtle details and "he said, she said" aspects. Overall, I just think we should be making stuff in this country and not outsourcing everything or relying on China to supply the chain. That's bad for us as a country and bad for the global environment.
Troy

KPC provided jobs to many people and kept them off of government support and welfare, and we can't have that.
We need all of the people to rely completely on the government for everything. that's the only way we can truly control them.
Nazi Pelosi

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by gt350mike

It makes perfect sense....... Nobody in the US can manufacture material that is as flame resistant as the material purchased from overseas. If an American company could at least match the performance, don't you think the military would award the contract to them verses a foreign company?

Have you even read any of the posts in this thread? Our manufacturing base was destroyed by federal mandates.

[cgarr]

Wasn't this the same reason we lost the last space shuttle, they were not allowed to make foam insulation the proper way because of environmental reasons and pieces came off and damaged the underside of the shuttle?