Flabio, flabio, flabio......
 

Well it seems that the renault shakup wasn't over, flabio has been banned from all things FIA, along with anyone he may manage in all levels of the FIA, and pat symonds is out for 5 years....
Renault as a team has a 2 year "suspended ban" (still trying to figure out exactly what that means).....
They were found guilty this morning by the fia.....full story on the F1 site, I'll copy/paste it when I'm not on my bb later......

Renault have been disqualified from the FIA Formula One World Championship, with the ban suspended for two years, after the World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) found them guilty on Monday of conspiring to cause a deliberate crash in last year’s Singapore Grand Prix.

Investigations by the Council and by Renault found that team boss Flavio Briatore and executive director of engineering Pat Symonds, both of whom have now left the team, planned the crash with driver Nelson Piquet in order to benefit the race strategy of Fernando Alonso, who went on to win. Neither Alonso nor any other Renault personnel were aware of the conspiracy.

In addition to banning Renault, the WMSC handed out hefty individual penalties to Briatore and Symonds. Neither will be allowed any involvement in FIA-sanctioned motorsport, Briatore indefinitely and Symonds for the next five years. Piquet, who was dropped by Renault in July, was granted immunity from sanction for volunteering his evidence in the investigation.

"We are very sad to find ourselves in front of the Word Motor Sport Council today,” said Renault team president Bernard Rey after the Paris hearing. "By way of background, as a result of our own enquiries, we informed the FIA last week that we would not defend the charges and we accepted our responsibilities in relation to the incident in Singapore and we immediately took appropriate action inside the team.

"Today, we fully accept the decision of the Council. We apologize unreservedly to the F1 community in relation to this unacceptable behaviour. We sincerely hope that we can soon put this matter behind us and focus constructively on the future. We will issue further information in the next few days."

Piquet retired from Formula One racing’s inaugural night race in Singapore last September after hitting the wall on Lap 14, just after Alonso had made his first pit stop. The subsequent safety-car period helped vault the Spaniard, originally 15th on the grid, to the front end of the field.

The full statement from the WMSC:
At an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council held in Paris on 21 September 2009, the ING Renault F1 team (“Renault F1”) admitted that the team had conspired with its driver Nelson Piquet Jr. to cause a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, in breach of the International Sporting Code and F1 Sporting Regulations.

Renault F1 stated at the meeting that it had conducted a detailed internal investigation, which found that: (i) Flavio Briatore, Pat Symonds and Nelson Piquet Jr. had conspired to cause the crash; and (ii) no other team member was involved in the conspiracy.

The FIA has conducted its own detailed investigation and its findings correspond with those of Renault F1.

At the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council, Renault F1 made the following points in mitigation:

- it had accepted, at the earliest practicable opportunity, that it committed the offences with which it was charged and cooperated fully with the FIA’s investigation;
- it had confirmed that Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds were involved in the conspiracy and ensured that they left the team;
- it apologised unreservedly to the FIA and to the sport for the harm caused by its actions;
- it committed to paying the costs incurred by the FIA in its investigation; and
- Renault (the parent company, as opposed to Renault F1) committed to making a significant contribution to FIA safety-related projects.

Nelson Piquet Jr. also apologised unreservedly to the World Motor Sport Council for his part in the conspiracy.

The following decision was taken:

The World Motor Sport Council finds that Renault F1 team members Flavio Briatore, Pat Symonds and Nelson Piquet Jr. conspired to cause a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. The World Motor Sport Council therefore finds Renault F1, which, under article 123 of the International Sporting Code, is responsible for the actions of its employees, in breach of Articles 151(c) and point 2(c) of Chapter IV of Appendix L of the Code, and Articles 3.2, 30.3 and/or 39.1 of the Formula One Sporting Regulations.

The World Motor Sport Council considers Renault F1’s breaches relating to the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix to be of unparalleled severity. Renault F1’s breaches not only compromised the integrity of the sport but also endangered the lives of spectators, officials, other competitors and Nelson Piquet Jr. himself. The World Motor Sport Council considers that offences of this severity merit permanent disqualification from the FIA Formula One World Championship. However, having regard to the points in mitigation mentioned above and in particular the steps taken by Renault F1 to identify and address the failings within its team and condemn the actions of the individuals involved, the WMSC has decided to suspend Renault F1’s disqualification until the end of the 2011 season. The World Motor Sport Council will only activate this disqualification if Renault F1 is found guilty of a comparable breach during that time.

In addition the World Motor Sport Council notes Renault F1’s apology and agrees that the team should pay the costs of the investigation. It also accepts the offer of a significant contribution to the FIA’s safety work.

As regards Mr. Briatore, the World Motor Sport Council declares that, for an unlimited period, the FIA does not intend to sanction any International Event, Championship, Cup, Trophy, Challenge or Series involving Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever, or grant any license to any Team or other entity engaging Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever. It also hereby instructs all officials present at FIA-sanctioned events not to permit Mr. Briatore access to any areas under the FIA’s jurisdiction. Furthermore, it does not intend to renew any Superlicence granted to any driver who is associated (through a management contract or otherwise) with Mr. Briatore, or any entity or individual associated with Mr. Briatore. In determining that such instructions should be applicable for an unlimited period, the World Motor Sport Council has had regard not only to the severity of the breach in which Mr. Briatore was complicit but also to his actions in continuing to deny his participation in the breach despite all the evidence.

As regards Mr. Symonds, the World Motor Sport Council declares that, for a period of five years, the FIA does not intend to sanction any International Event, Championship, Cup, Trophy, Challenge or Series involving Mr. Symonds in any capacity whatsoever, or grant any license to any Team or other entity engaging Mr. Symonds in any capacity whatsoever. It hereby instructs, for a period of five years, all officials present at FIA-sanctioned events not to permit Mr. Symonds access to any areas under the FIA’s jurisdiction. In determining that such instructions should be effective for a period of five years the World Motor Sport Council has had regard: (i) to Mr. Symonds’ acceptance that he took part in the conspiracy; and (ii) to his communication to the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council that it was to his “eternal regret and shame” that he participated in the conspiracy.

As regards Mr. Piquet Jr., the World Motor Sport Council confirms the immunity from individual sanctions under the International Sporting Code in relation to this incident, which the FIA had granted to him in exchange for volunteering his evidence.

As regards Fernando Alonso, the World Motor Sport Council thanks him for cooperating with the FIA’s enquiries and for attending the meeting, and concludes that Mr. Alonso was not in any way involved in Renault F1’s breach of the regulations.

The World Motor Sport Council would like to thank the Stewards and legal investigation team (in particular Dorothy Cory-Wright of Sidley Austin LLP who conducted the interviews at the Belgian Grand Prix).

The full reasons for this decision, in addition to a complete recording of the proceedings before the World Motor Sport Council, will be made available shortly.

I’m sure this has happened many times in the past, just took a little insecure prick like Jr to surface it.
Junior got immunity but wonder how many teams will bid for his services in the future?

All in all, it was probable the right decision…but parties involved should know the difference between being “Right” and “Dead Right”

Wow, that is amazing.

there's still something amiss with this whole ordeal......i'm just not quite sure what it is.....

Alonso wasn't aware......right....

If it had been Ferrari, somehow it would have all just disappeared and never been heard about.

Oh, the Ferrari conspiracy resurfaces. Renault and McLaren are proven to be cheaters, but the red ones are the real enemy LOL. Wheres Legion to confirm?

Funny thing is that all of the major scandals of the last two years all involved Alonzo. First the blackmail issue with McLaren now this.

Had this happened at McLaren, they would be banned for 5 years, no suspension. Notice that the "blackmail issue" cost them $100 million while Renault paid not one penny in fine?

There is no justice in F1 as long as the two scumbags Mosley and Bernie are there. It will be a far better world when they are out of the mix IMHO.

Everyone in F1 is equal.. just some are more equal than others...

Max has got his own back on Flavio....and the whole circus rolls forward again.
Its all pretty nasty and there is enough mud to cover most people....

Some have nicknamed him: Teflonso

Ian

I wondered how long it would take for someone to try and shift the focus from the cheating, lying POS' at renault to ferrari.
Not long.

Does anyone think Flavio didn't develop these skills when he ran the red cars?

Errr....he never ran the red cars..ran Benetton and then was the head honcho at Renault/Supertec as engine supplier before being hired by Renault as head honcho of the F1 team..

I think he learnt about bending the rules a bit at Benetton.. both prior to running their F1 team and as boss.....the list of his team staff during those years makes you think.

My mistake. Benetton was before my time and I thought he managed a team that Michael Schumacher drove for--so I made an assumption.

Schumacher did drive for Benetton in his first year in F1.

MS started in F1 with Jordan (1991).. then Flavio pinched him after a single race... he won the WDC in 1994 and stayed in 1995 another WDC...went to Ferrari for the 1996 season...
So Flavio and MS had a 'few years' together.....

Satrting to remind me of WWE!

So, to summarize it is Schumacher's fault that renault cheated?

Sorry Ferrari fan here...but you meant to say McLaren right??. They steal their engineering, get fined $100Mill then they're allowed to build the ECU for everyone?? What a bunch of *****!! Being a huge F1 fan here, it's really sad to see what's happened to the sport. To me F1 is dead and gone. It's just another boring Champ car/Formula 3000 series, they should just call it a day and pack it up..

I feel the same way. Until I see them accelerate, go around a corner, change directions & brake. Once I pick my lower jaw off the floor, check the remote to make sure the FF button isn't stuck on, then I remember why I watch F1 :)

Or did MS learn to cheat whilst racing for Flavio?

Of course not. He learned that instinctively whenever one of Frank Williams' cars threatened. Just ask JV or DH.





Tim

tchanson
You hit the nail on the head MS trying to runJV off the road and it backfired on him, he got stuck and JV was a champion, MS never really appolagized for it lost all kinds of points in the process too. Never liked that cheating B**tard, hated him after the JV thing. Was truly saddened when Aryton left us as he would still be stomping MS. All of the records that MS has were going to be Senna's except for most second place (first loser) finishes. No Doubt that Flav has taught lots of tricks to lots of drivers

I guess that racing for Flavio from 1991 until 1996 including 2 WDC's meant he learnt nothing from Flavio about 'bending the rules?'...

Or perhaps the list of suspected transgressions of the rules attributed to the Benetton team in that period, especially in 1995 might give a clue..traction control anyone...

Flavio was a ruthless operator... winning was his only aim...

Waaah.

I have a few good stories about really good "cheats" in race cars....I'll save those for another thread :)

"Cheating" used to mean finding the loophole in the rules which didn't cover an area which could certainly be exploited......and gain the advantage.
I love F1, it's like aircraft on wheels, probably why I like the red bull air racing series so much....

I think in time all the evidence will be released, right now it is all one sided from the FIA as far as what actually transpired.....could flabio actually be innocent? Yes.....but not likely imo.....
It comes down to what the actual evidence is against them, hopefully they wouldn't make this decision on heresay from piquet and others.....going by the radio transcripts it's hard to say......
I just think there more to this than we are being told......can we really trust mosley and bernie?
Who else is on the board? Anyone know?
I just want the facts....and no one seems to be giving them up....

Flavio was the world's luckiest sweater salesman, and it finally ran out.





Tim

I have to disagree Schumacher is the best F1 driver of all time and has almost every record beat. His records will never be matched. He would have stomped Senna. The only reason Senna became a legend is because he unfortunately got killed.

Senna was known to be rather ruthless in the car, not the saint he has become since his tregedy. A lot of the good ones are.

I am not even a Schumacher fan, but this I cannot deny. He's right about Senna too.

You really are a baby Sammy...

Lucky absolutely... but he made lots of his own luck..

Sorry but you have things a bit mixed up. The reason why Schuie won so many is that Senna was killed.

Senna wiped the floor with Schuie, there was no way to compare the two when they were in an equal car. Even off of the track Senna would not take any BS off of him, and believe twice had his hands around Schuie's throat while having a "come to Jesus" talk with him. Had Senna lived he would still be kicking Shuie's rear end.

Senna is a legend because he truely was one, especially in the rain. Very few people who have seen him in person would ever refute this. First time I saw him was at Monaco, where he was the absolute master. You can try to re-write history but it aint gonna work.

Bite me limey.

Ahh, so they WERE team-mates, then... I guess I missed that year.

Not meaning to pick a fight but we really didn't get to see Schumacher, in his prime, race against Senna in equal cars. I don't think any kind of relative parity was reached between two teams for many years after Senna died. There was usually one team that was a ways ahead of the rest in those years.

I think, had Senna lived, Schumi would have won fewer races and titles. No question. I think it would be interesting to have seen them go head to head for another 10 years. Since they didn't, we'll never know what the outcome would have been. They were both great drivers and more alike, in ways both good and bad, than they are given credit for.


JR

Again.. ignorant and wrong...

Hmmm... I think we saw the AS/MS battle pretty well... in 1992 and 1993 neither was in a top flight car.. the Benettons and McLarens were quite similar in performance...and if you look at those season's results they were very close overall in performance terms.

That gives some credibilty to the relative performances one could expect. But it did not happen.

One thing is certain is the whilst he may not have been the greatest ever driver he was the most motivated and determined to build the best team around him and 'demand' the best performance from them all. I'd say that a fundamental building block of his record is the reliability and relative infallibiltiy of the Ferrari team...That is unequalled and commands respect in itself.

During those dominating years MS won his races and WDCs without a shadow of a doubt.. it was when things were not gonig his way that the 'questionable' actions arose...and its under pressure that flaws are revealled.

As the saying goes.. we can see far because we are standing on the shoulders of giants...MS took AS's example and took it to the next level.. as AS had done by taking Alain Prost's example and taking up a notch..and so on...

Currently there does not appear to be a driver who is cutting new ground...certainly not FA or LH....but in a couple of years perhaps LH or Vettel will do so..politics permitting.

I think the battles in 1992 and 1993 showed neither of them to their best. I have a hard time recalling 1992 but the McLaren was a turd in 1993. In any case, while Senna was probably at the top of his game, Schumacher was years away from peaking. So it's hard for me to decide which one would have ended up on top. I truly wish Senna hadn't been taken from us.

JR

The point remains that F1 is a joke. As long as Bernie is there, it will only be about the money, and since Ferrari fans spend more than anyone else, the FIA will pander to them - which they undoubtedly do.

Yes, Renault broke the rules. They should be punished for it.

Yes, McLaren broke the rules. They should also be punished for it.

Do you guys honestly think Ferrari is as pure as the driven snow? Gimmee a break. They've either just not been caught yet or they have been caught and the money players (Bernie et al) behind the scenes) made it all go away before it became public.

There's sleaze in every single F1 team out there on the grid. I also seem to remember a rather controversial incident where Schumi "overcooked" a routine corner and speared the tire wall a couple of seasons ago, but nobody seemed to care, right?

The friggin' tifosi bias in F1 makes it practically insufferable. And I actually like their cars.