Good .308 practice ammo

[MotoSook]

What's a good cheap 308 ammo that isn't too far off on accuracy?

It's for a bolt action rifle.

Is this good? A308BB Brown Bear .308 145grn FMJ.

What's a good ammo after practice?

[emcon5]

Does this mean you found a bolt gun?

[m21sniper]

Sounds like a Russkie made approxomation of M80 ball, which is 147gr FMJ at a nominal 2650fps. Expect typical military ball-like accuracy. IOW, nothing special.

[pwd72s]

It's the rare rifle that can digest different ammo and be expected to be accurate, grouping in the same area.

Rather than looking for anything cheap, you should select a quality ammo and then stick with it.

Consistancy is the key to accuracy...ask any handloader. Serious folks spend a LOT of time working up a perfect load...

I'm a factory ammo guy with my hunting rifles. The technique I use is to take one box of each brand & bullet weight I am considering, take them to the range and test...5 shot groups at 100, then 200 yards. For my 7mm Magnum caliber rifle, I've found that Norma is the brand of choice. For the .257 Roberts rifle, old time Remington Core Lock seems to group best..

[azasadny]

I make my own .308 ammo for my BIL's AR-10.

[on2wheels52]

I try to avoid any ammo that a magnet will stick to in my 'good' guns, although that type has its place.
Jim

[MotoSook]

Does this mean you found a bolt gun?

I don't have it, but I've settled on a Rem 700 SPS Varmint. A dealer is trying to get one for me before the next local show where I can pick it up. Should work out, otherwise Buds has it instock.

I figure the action and 26" 1/12 twist barrel was a good start. I'll probably upgrade the stock and install a drop mag kit at some point inaddition to any work on the action. I figure it's going to be a long range toy that I use to challenge my shooting.

Back on topic I should have mentioned thr the barrel is a 1/12 twist and I'd like to use factory ammo since I'm not set up to reload and probably won't anytime soon for lack of time.

So with the 1/12 twist, what is the heavy end of my range of ammo?

With a bolt gun, I don't see how using a coated steel case could damage anything. But I'd like to hear opinions regarding the technical disadvantages of using steel case.

[charleskieffner]

heres the gig here...........i have done this a long damn time now. im 52. and im really really really REALLY GOOD AT THIS! i have multiple flavors of .308's,bolt and semi

take any veapon. buy remington/federal/hornaday(examples) in 168gr boat tail hollow points.

wait for a cool day. this helps alot in how fast ya get to shoot again after taking a shot.

swab barrel perfectly clean night before.

get to range swab barrel again

get set up. take (3) shots with one flavor of ammo. these will be flyers(not perfect)

take cool wet shop rag out of 6 packer ice chest and drape over barrel to cool

swab barrel twice.

when barrel cool set up for shot and take 3-shots slow and smooth

swab barrel again twice

change flavors while wet rag cools off barrel

when barrel cool take 3 slow steady smooth shots

swab barrel let barrel cool and change ammo again

when barrel cool take 3 more slow steady shots


now ya have 3 flavors of ammo groupings.

i will be very surprised if federal match 168gr bthp are not best groups


now go home and check bedding on rifle, run dollar bill btwn barrel and forend down to receiver. any binding or stoppage, BED the damn thing. this means barrel is touching stock and thats a NO NO!

now take apart trigger if ya dont like pull, look up brownells and buy timney adjustable trigger and titanium firing pin and zoomy spring(better lock times)


if totally frustrated by groupings, send it to mcmillian and wait about 9-10 months and have a wad of cash ready.


the only way you can get even better groupings is by reloading yer own recipe. and thats a whole book of info there and i dont have time.

200 rds always thru weapon before break in complete.


screw the cheap ass russian ammo, yer stroking yerself


all my .308's eat federal match unless plinking and then its nato rounds 147gr fmj's.

when gun finally comes home, grab 6pak cuz you will be there a while and use sweets 7.62 bore solvent and clean hell out of bore. when ya think yer done, get some J.B.s BORE PASTE and run a swab down. when ya see all the crap come out continue following instructions until bore is perfectly clean. you will be a believer.

have lots of swabs and a bore guide. the end of barrel is called the "crown" DO NOT DAMAGE! with yanking and shanking cleaning rod in and out. a damaged crown is easily seen with magnifying glass and that is what affects your bullet leaving barrel. if damaged yer barrel gets cut and recrowned.


read about bullet harmonics and how bullet interacts with rifling and you will understand more.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by Soukus

Back on topic I should have mentioned thr the barrel is a 1/12 twist and I'd like to use factory ammo since I'm not set up to reload and probably won't anytime soon for lack of time.

1:12 should work for 140 to 180 grains, so generally anything you would want to shoot.

Dan Lilja has a good chart here:

Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Caliber and Twist Rates

A note on free floating the barrel, shoot it first. If it shoots good, leave it alone.

Not sure about the SPS, but Remington 700s generally have a pressure point on the barrel at the front end of the stock. I have heard the SPS stock is a little flexible, so if you float the barrel, the stock can flex and make an inconsistent pressure point on the barrel, rather the the consistent factory one.

In other words, make sure you have a problem before you fix it, and make sure you don't create a new problem when you do fix it.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Soukus

I don't have it, but I've settled on a Rem 700 SPS Varmint. A dealer is trying to get one for me before the next local show where I can pick it up. Should work out, otherwise Buds has it instock.

I figure the action and 26" 1/12 twist barrel was a good start. I'll probably upgrade the stock and install a drop mag kit at some point inaddition to any work on the action. I figure it's going to be a long range toy that I use to challenge my shooting.

Back on topic I should have mentioned thr the barrel is a 1/12 twist and I'd like to use factory ammo since I'm not set up to reload and probably won't anytime soon for lack of time.

So with the 1/12 twist, what is the heavy end of my range of ammo?

With a bolt gun, I don't see how using a coated steel case could damage anything. But I'd like to hear opinions regarding the technical disadvantages of using steel case.

.308's all have a universal rifling twist rate as far as i know. This multi-twist thing is largely a .223 only phenomenon.

A standard twist .308 or .30-06 barrel should fire anything from 140 to 220 grains.

Firing military ball type ammo out of a finely built and tuned "varmint" (in .308?) gun is a total waste of time and money. Could be fun, but really it's pointless. Every variety will shoot to a different point of aim and will likely never do better than about 2 moa. You should be building your own ammo with that type of rifle, really.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

.308's all have a universal rifling twist rate as far as i know. This multi-twist thing is largely a .223 only phenomenon.

Most are 1:12, but Savage 308 rifles are 1:10, there may be others.

A standard twist .308 or .30-06 barrel wil fire anything from 140 to 220 grains.

It will fire it, yeah, but it may not stabilize properly. The 1:12 should work fine up to 180 grains, IE most commercial ammo. For heavier, you really need 1:10.

See Lilja's FAQ here:
Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - FAQ

[m21sniper]

Hmm, when i used to hunt with my uncles .30-06 pump i'd used it (100yd zero) with everything up to 200gr without problems.

Do .30-06's typically have a tighter twist rate than .308's?

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hmm, when i used to hunt with my uncles .30-06 pump i'd used it (100yd zero) with everything up to 200gr without problems.

Do .30-06's typically have a tighter twist rate than .308's?

Remington .30-06 rifles are all 1:10. Looks like Remington 7600 pumps come in 1:10 for both .308 and .30-06
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_7600_specs.asp

[Jeff Higgins]

Yup. .30-'06 standard is a 10" twist. The 12" twist of the .308 is better for the lighter bullets, and no one expects the .308 to be used with 200-220 grain bullets. It simply does not have the powder capacity to make it worthwhile; velocities will be way down.

[charleskieffner]

truth be told none of us here will ever become snipers unless the SHTF and everythang goes nuklar.............................

and deer and elk etc. will never know the difference of .000005 off of your POA(point of aim).

if you have an average priced veapon that shoots 1/2 moa you are lucky and leave it alone.


striving to hit "x" over and over becomes as moronic as playing concours with a 911. "yep ya lost 10 points because of lint underneath yer seat"

i have learned my lessons $$$$$$ wise and really to go hunting average is just fine. i too got caught up with sniper grade accuracy over the years and with old age begets wizdumb and when we take a 45/70 out of the box, shoot 200 rds of hornaday 325 gr to break in, clean the hell out of it, hand over to nelson ford for butter trigger job, and then my 20 yr old kid goes and pops an elk first time out, that tells me a 133 year old bullet/weapon design is pretty damn top knotch!


weapon mfg's have pushed this accuracy thing to the nth degree. hell 99.9% of miltary grade veapons cant hit 1/2 moa to save their ass. and gubbermints buy them.

why?


just take a look at how big a full size man target is.


bragging rights on anything costs bucks.


like anything else once yer hooked yer hooked for awhile and out of the box accuracy just isnt good enough. hence ya spend big $$$$$$$

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yup. .30-'06 standard is a 10" twist. The 12" twist of the .308 is better for the lighter bullets, and no one expects the .308 to be used with 200-220 grain bullets. It simply does not have the powder capacity to make it worthwhile; velocities will be way down.

In all honesty my .308 experience ceases at any weight above 168grs.

[MotoSook]

Originally Posted by emcon5

1:12 should work for 140 to 180 grains, so generally anything you would want to shoot.

Dan Lilja has a good chart here:

Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Caliber and Twist Rates

A note on free floating the barrel, shoot it first. If it shoots good, leave it alone.

Not sure about the SPS, but Remington 700s generally have a pressure point on the barrel at the front end of the stock. I have heard the SPS stock is a little flexible, so if you float the barrel, the stock can flex and make an inconsistent pressure point on the barrel, rather the the consistent factory one.

In other words, make sure you have a problem before you fix it, and make sure you don't create a new problem when you do fix it.

One of the reason I am buying the Varmint version as oppose to the other more pricey versions that have "Tactical" or "Police" added (incl. an upgrade stock) to the 700 SPS model name is that I don't think it's going to make a big difference to me (not in competition) whether the thing shoots 1.5 MOA or .5 MOA. Maybe as I grow with the rifle I'll change it up, but for now the plain one will be just fine. I recall reading on snipercentral that the plastic stock of the SPS does deform onto the barrel when resting the stock on something, but that the accuracy suffered minimally, maybe a difference of .5-.7 MOA. If I can shoot 1.5 MOA or better with the unmodified rifle, I'll be happy for $560

As for twist, you can get a Remington in 308 with 1/10 twist. Some of the 20" and stainless barrels are 1/10. I'm no going to be sniping anyone or joining competition, so the cheapo ammo will work just fine then. 140 gr to 180 gr...cool. I'll watch for ammo in that range.

How about a good but cheap scope? How powerful a scope? I think there's a 600 yd range not to far from me, and that's about as long as I'll probably shoot.

[charleskieffner]

"cheap scope?" NEVER!

buy what ya can afford. leupold please fer me.


zeiss you bet yer ass.

3.5 x 10 is el perfecto for .308. tried and true. cant beat it.

4.5 x 14 a lil much unless popping terrorists/zombees btwn the eyes from 1200 yds.


3 x9 is okay if ya find a good deal.

someday you will fall or your veapon will be dropped. poo happens and you'll be pissed as a mofo!

but wouldnt ya like a lifetime no hassle we will kiss yer ass warranty?????????????


LEUPOLD!

and i went thru (3) leupold stadias breaking with my 26" barrel .338 mcmillian monster.

4.5 x 14 50 mm target knobs flat black for free and i started with a used 3x9 i had bought from some clown.

i didnt buy it originally and leupold warrantied it!!!!!!! and when the next (2) i picked up dropped their stadia's..............leupold said pick WHATEVER ONE YA WANT!

unreal customer service hands down best company i have ever dealt with on a warranty issue.

true story and how this happened. shooting amigo and i are drinking beer and im biotching about freeking scope stadia. he says "send it back to leupold" i decided to and the next thing ya know, they send me the others.! amazing products.

.338 win mags are very very very hard on scopes.

[m21sniper]

Buy a leopold M3A.