Yes, the Ferrari owner said that he was going to stop talking about the event because it was going to court, I suspect that he was advised to get it deleted.

I thought it was a 348 cab.

Could have been, that sounds right.

There is a good argument to whether or not the Prius is better for the environment. Where are all those spent batteries going to wind up? What about the energy used to produce those batteries?

Living in the PNW, this type of "attack" has always been in the back of my mind when I park my Porsche in public lots. I occasionally get the righteous look of disapproval from some tree hugger, when I'm in the 911. I never get that in my Outback. Funny thing is, I hammer on the go pedal in the 911 all day long and still get the same gas mileage around town as I do in the Outback. On the highway, the 911 blows away my Outback in MPG.

Doesn't this idiot realize that all he's going to do is require the owner to get a new top, which means more resources expended?

Dumbasses like this deserve a swift kick in the ball-sack to ensure that they don't reproduce successfully.

There's no argument at all. Even if Priuses ascended into heaven at the end of their service life, the damage caused to the environment just in their production is worse than that of just about any other normal car. And if I wanted a hyrbrid to save money on gas (nevermind the false economy of buying an expensive car to save money somewhere else), wouldn't that encourage me to just drive more? I'll take my 450 lbs., 45 mpg motorcycle anyday.

It's far more logical to justify buying a Prius on the life-cycle cost savings of gasoline rather than any supposed environmental benefit. The embodied energy cost of a Prius is quite high, especially when one considers that all the batteries are manufactured in Asia and shipped here - even for the cars that are built here (transporting batteries is fuel-intensive, labor-intensive and expensive - they're heavy and considered hazardous material).

When gas was $4 a gallon, the Priii (plural?) made a lot more sense. Nowadays they still make sense life-cycle cost-wise, but I doubt most people think that way. The "emotional" number that triggers people thinking "what will this vehicle save or cost me over the course of my ownership in fuel?" is probably around $3.50 or so - at least today. Below that, I honestly think most people just look at it as "a car is a car" and the fuel costs are part of the cost of doing business, so to speak. Yes, you'll CERTAINLY save a ton by having a 45 mpg vehicle versus a 28 mpg vehicle even with gas at $2 (or $1, like that'd ever happen) a gallon but most people just don't think that way. Other factors ("my wife likes the color", "nice style", "looks cool", "it might get me laid", "I'm getting a good price", etc.) will trump those sorts of things.

I'm not saying it's smart to shop that way, just how I suspect most people do shop for cars. If it's anything like buildings/housing/construction, it's VERY hard to get life-cycle costs to even be considered by most people. It's probably not much different for cars, and for the same reasons ("I'm not going to have it that long to realize much financial benefit, so why pay the extra money?")

Whatever happened to people living by their own values and letting others do the same?
I hate tree huggers for just this reason. They think they have the right to tell others how to live.

most hybrids do not make sense economically. The amount saved on fuel more often than not doesn't equal the increase cost of purchase/ownership. It's a fool's game.

Yes, but only if you're already planning to buy a new car. These IDIOTS, who last summer traded in their paid-for SUV's for financed Prii (plural?) will take longer to recoop their money than they'll own the car, even if it's a maintenance-free car for life.

My wife has been racking up the miles on her Mini with about 45 miles per day commuting. At 30 mpg it's not too bad. But we very well may soon be closing on a house that's walking distance from her office. Sure would have been a mistake to buy a Prius to cut down her commute.

Bold mine. (I had opened the link yesterday -still up on my cmptr)

Good summation there masraum. The thread was like any thread here - interspersed with comments on everything from, how to catch the guy, to legal thoughts to where to go for a new top.

My parents bought a used Honda Insight about five or six years ago. As much as I hate to say it, that thing is a GREAT little car. Very inexpensive to own and operate, and for an econobox it's a lot of fun to drive (drives just like a stock early 914 1.7).
Interestingly, I've noticed that Insight drivers and Prius drivers are usually very different. The Insight crowd isn't nearly as smug... I suspect because most people still don't recognize the Insight or know that it's a hybrid.

Base model Prius = $22,000, est. 50 mpg combined (source: Toyota.com)
Base model Honda Civic = $15,455, est. 29 mpg combined (source: Honda.com)
Base model Boxster (just for fun) = $46,600, est. 25 mpg combined (source: Porsche.com)

At 12,000 miles per year, the annual consumptions are:

Prius: 240 gallons
Civic: 414 gallons
Boxster: 480 gallons

So if gas is $3.00, the Prius will cost you $3,600 in fuel over a 5-year ownership tenure. This compares with $6,210 for the Civic and $7,200 for the Boxster. That's really only a $3,600 savings in five years - or $720 a year. That's less than a "trendy" Prius owner's annual iPhone service costs. It's not that much. So I do kinda' agree with Sammy here.

Here's the interesting part:

Since the Civic is $6,545 cheaper than the Prius, at a net fuel savings of $1,242 - $720 or $522 per year, you're better off with the Civic unless you hold your Prius for $6,545 / $522 or TWELVE AND A HALF years (!) That's far longer than most people will. And it also assumes no other variables in annual ownership costs (which there will certainly be) like maintenance, battery replacements, etc.

If you're gonna' buy new (which as Rick correctly says, is crazy) then it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to go with a Prius. Yes, you'll save a little but not enough to really be significant over a traditional econobox like the Civic.

The kicker? My Mercedes cost me $23k used (had 48,000 miles at the time). Only $1,000 more than a base Prius, so I'll say they're comparable on entry cost. Mileage averages about 24 mpg. At $3 a gallon, 12,000 miles a year, I'm only $720 in the hole for fuel costs annually versus the Prius. And I think I have a far better car (certainly more interesting and more fun). AND my M.B. had already taken the bulk of its depreciation hit when I got it - unlike the Prius (admittedly the Prius depreciation curve is shallower overall, but the initial drop is still way steeper than where my '01 M.B. is now).

Just for yucks, let's consider my 944. I bought it for about $3k, probably have about $5k in repairs and upgrades into, so I'll call the cost of entry to be about $10k (that's being really generous). Average mileage is about 22 mpg. Based on that, it will take the Prius owner almost TWENTY NINE years to make up the difference ($525 per year fuel savings difference). Yeah, my 944 is an "old" car, but it makes a lot more sense economically - especially since I'm keeping it.

My point is this stuff is all relative and the "smug" levels of Prius owners are hardly supported by the hard numbers. They're marginally better than economy cars, certainly superior to SUVs or pickups (duh, but it's also not an apples-to-apples comparison either with different vehicle types) and in no way better than going used, if you're really concerned about costs.

Is the Prius a good car? Sure. Will it save you money? Probably some. But are there better cars out there for a person's individual needs/wants to balance economy, fun, cost, etc.? Almost certainly.

The Prius' success is in the marketing, not the raw engineering. Sammy is correct.

What P-O-P said.

I've done the math before as well - no matter how you stack it up - if one buys a hybrid car, it will take 12-15 years or more to "break even" when considering the fuel savings vs. the premium paid for the hybrid powerplant.

Most cars are already out of warranty after 5 years, so given that a hybrid car's powerplant is more than twice as complex as a regular internal combustion motor, once that car is out of warranty, I'd had to be paying those repair bills...

Hybrids simply don't make sense. And they weren't designed as an end-all solution. We need to wait for that -- I truly think all electric and (better yet) hydrogen powered cars are the key. But the technology isn't quite there yet.

-Z

And do those calcs include battery replacement costs which I understand can be pretty high and much more frequent than you'd expect? That could potentially make the recoup time go to infinity.

Jeff left out the 5spd Corolla. My mom consistently gets 40. Dad bought it used with 900 miles and paid about 12k. That car is built solid and will outlast any prius. Tell me which makes more sense.

That's why I bought the Boxster for my wife, much cheaper than a new Civic and it gets 35-30mpg so we're saving even more! Oh and did I say we're having a LOT more fun than driving a Civic or Prius? :)

That was a good summary of the thread.

One interesting part was how they actually figured out who the guy was. The videotape showed him, but apparently not his license plate.

They were able to get his name from the credit card that he used at the restaurant! Had he paid cash he probably would have gotten away with it.

The "environmental" argument is pretty lame. First, of course, causing a top (and attempted 4 tires) to go to a landfill doesn't do much good.

But most of all, a modern Ferrari isn't a polluting car, it needs to meet modern emissions standards.

Sure, its mileage is below par. But a beat up '75 Chevy probably gets around the same mileage, while emitting 100X as many pollutants, and I'm sure Mr. Prius has never vandalized one of those. Wonder why?

Boy howdy on this...but really, it's not a far step from inside the beltway to a store parking lot. Saying no more to try to keep this from going to PARF.

I will admit a certain satisfaction when I passed a Prius driving west out of Sisters...he smugly saving the gas for me to burn. Timed my shift so it would happen as I was alongside...then gave him a good view of my dual exhaust. :D

Long live the V-8 and the hot flat 6!