floating plastic island in the pacific twice the size of Texas
 

This is really messed up.

Mission to Break up Pacific Island of Rubbish Twice the Size of Texas | CommonDreams.org

Plastic Soup | Granville

I posted a pic of this in the "random pics" thread, and it was called PARF.
Not sure why the survival of humankind could be considered a political issue.

Time to move this to PARF

This is not PARFy

It's pollution.

Nevermind, now I understand why it's PARFy. PARF is pollution too.

How is this possibly political? It's an environmental issue, which is (or at least should be) completely bi-partisan.

Actual trash from the Gyre

http://www.granvilleonline.ca/files/...ificGyre-5.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...i_1391171c.jpg

Not from the Gyre, this is on a beach in HI

http://enviroknow.com/thesource/wp-c...04/plastic.jpg

Because the people who work for this organization are hard-core environmentalists.
Past history has shown us that these types of people often greatly exaggerate conditions in order to generate interest and grant money.
That may or may not be the case in this situation.

Their financial statement reveals that they recieved $750,486 in grant money in 2008, up considerably from the year before.

A company I worked for for 9 years is a major contributor. They contribute to keep certain other groups off their back. Kinda like they used to do in chigaco and New York a long time ago.
It is hardly bi-partisan.

Let me ask you a question:
if they put out a report that stated there was a little plastic floating in this area but it's not enough to seriously worry about, how much money do you think they'd collect in donations and grants?

Now, I think we can safely say there is a garbage patch, it is real, it does exist.
But how big is it and how severe is this problem?
We have a few posters in this thead that are ready to declare that the end is near and the world and human race is in danger!
Based on what?

This is taken from NOAA's website (National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration)
Estimates of size can vary from hundreds of square miles to hundreds of thousands of square miles depending on who is doing ther estimating.

Some folks like to make it sounds like it's one giant solid pile of junk. It isn't.
It's an area where trash and garbage is more concentrated than in other areas.

Let's look at it from a reality standpoint, OK?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254170340.jpg

Let me guess, your major was in drama ...

must be leftovers from the DNC.

Its the world's 8th continent and there are mermaid tears involved. We'd better take this seriously. Where do I send my check?

I can barely stomach National Geographic any longer. Things have really gotten carried away.

I'll make a deal with you "green" folks....Since I already recycle my plastics, I'll buy a Prius the day ALGORE stops jetting about to warn us about burning fossil fuels...

On second thot...screw the alarmists. I take that back...I love the sound of a throbbing V-8 and the sound of a screaming flat 6.

he he....he said "throbbing".

As much as I tend to sympathize with issues like this, I don't think calling this "floating island of garbage" is accurate. I saw a report on TV about this recently and it is hardly an "island". That conjures up images of some massive, floating pile of garbage that you could walk across. In reality, you could be right in the middle of this "patch of garbage" and not even see anything.

Sure, there's lots of non-biodegradable crap out in the ocean, but this is not the huge deal they are making it out to be.

sammy thinks everything he doesn't like is political

re "this org." -- do a search and you should find some of the scientific reports on this -- that "org." did not find this rubbish heap

it is unclear how much damage it is doing - surely seems doubtful that it threatens the "survival of humankind"

all of you need to relax...

Well, to be honest, I have a hard time swallowing the concept when they say it can't been seen by satellite imagery because the particles are too small, so I'm not even really a believer that it's all that big of a problem.

Nevertheless, it's only people who are entrenched in dogma, right or left, that insist issues such as this are political (i.e. the other side believes in it, so therefore I must disagree because I disagree with their politics). It's belief systems like this that bog governments down with partisan politics, and are one of the reasons democracies don't function well.

I'm sure anyone, right or left, will have plenty of "talking points" as the current jargon goes, to dispute this and carry on the R vs L endless arguments which serve to get us nowhere.

actually, small particle size is one of the problems -- it increases the surface area for release of plasticizers, which are known to disrupt the endocrine systems of animals

people eat some of the animals, so....

BUT, no one knows yet how big a problem it is.

If anyone could come up with a way to clean it up I would be interested. For the last hundred years ships have been dumping their trash at sea and this is what we get. I don't think many do it anymore but how can anyone be sure. Not being allowed to dump trash at sea is like outlawing whaling, people still do it.

It is very real, though as stated above it isn't a physical "island" in the literal sense. The gyre (there are a few) acts as concentrators for all the crap that ends up in the ocean.

As for the ramifications, at some point "dilution is the solution to pollution" will fail to work.

What size island of trash in the ocean is worthy of concern?

All the oceans near Oklahoma are plastic free!

Depends:
On the density...
and the density of the deniers of harsh reality
(pretty fk'n dense).

It's cyclical - nothing to worry about nature will take her course.

FK KOOSTOE!...and, of course, all his ilk (he was Franch ya know :mad:).

Strange I just heard a piece on the radio about some college study that was going to the "island". They said while collectively the amount of plastic may be massive, visibly you would like see nothing. Small bits per cubic meter. They were going to try and determine how much was really there.

Still sounds like a business opportunity if someone wants to "mine", or make that fish, for plastic. Gotta be cheaper than making it fresh, plus you can probably get some UN/Charity typ backing.

When it clogs the beach at La Jolla THEN it might be a problem.

Ian

Anyone else catch this rather glaring contradiction in the O.P.?

That said, yes - this is a serious problem and we can't just keep poo-pooh-ing the impact that humans have on our planet. We need to get past this "we'll just do whatever the hell we want and then rationalize away the consequences" stuff. Our kids deserve better than that. And no, that doesn't mean that we all have to become granola-eating, Birkenstock-wearing, smelly hippies that only use two squares of toilet paper a week. It means actually (1) admitting that human beings have a perceptible negative impact on the planet in an unsustainable way and (2) actually being willing to put something else (like our planet, our society and our kids' futures) above ourselves and our selfish desires.

People have an impact. Seven BILLION (7,000,000,000) people sure as hell have an impact. The operative word here is "mitigation". Do what you can, which is certainly more than simply parroting the arrogant, dismissive attitudes of the most vapid and boorish among us.

I think that we should have a protest. We should take all of the plastic water bottles, containers, wrappers, and maybe some of the foam stuff from restaurants, take it to the nearest bay or water source (extra points if it eventually connects to an ocean) and dump it into the water!! Just like the Boston Tea Party.

That'll show 'em!

This should have nothing to do with politics...it's common sense. Common sense tells me it isn't a good idea to put garbage / chemicals... into the air we breath, dirt we grow food or water we drink. I think it would be a good idea if we treated the entire planet like our front yard. By the sound of it several of you could care less about pollution in the ocean or anywhere else for that matter. Yet I'd bet if some guy day after day tossed empty plastic water bottle onto your front lawn you'd scream bloody murder. I guess it's out of sight out of mind. As long as the problem is out in the Ocean who cares. We'll just wait until it grows so big and dense that it becomes a real problem and then deal with it. I've never understood that logic but more and more it seems to be the American way. Federal deficit, social security, Medicare, mortgages mess, credit cards...

So it's all those cutup credit cards, floating around.... Damn Americans! Its always their fault. :rolleyes: (how many ships are American?)

So where does this issue sit? somewhere behind "universal health care" and carbon sin tax, I expect.

lukeh is right

but we don't know the magnitude of the problem yet

yes, it is certainly "worthy of concern" -- it is being studied, and we can then take whatever ation is required

there are many, many more problems - just in the ocean - that are surely of greater magnitude than this

one big example is acidificastion of all oceans -- that will heavily affect marine life, and is already affecting coral reefs (which are major fish habitat)

Virtually none. Those have been "outsourced" as well. Typically Liberia (one of the cheapest places to flag ships).

OMG ...food is grown in Dirt!? :eek: We had better do Something about That! ...Animals crap all over the place. What would happen if crap was around our farm produce/ crops!?

We need a superfund for clean up! :rolleyes:

heres something most of you pro recyclers dont know about. here in phoenix we have had the honor and distinction of building quite a few dumps along or in riverbanks. amazing brainpower here. anyway over the years these dumps have been closed down, after washing away during massive floods and crap going down the salt river into the gila river and then into the colorado river.

during one of these flood episodes we went out the salt river by north mesa and found 1000's of hypodermic needles. how nice!

anyway phx metro and surrounding cities finally figured this crap out and has closed all of the dumps along drainage systems.

for about the next 1000 years i wouldnt eat fish downstream of phx. ie. high mercury %.

anyway phx metro now has transfer stations. these transfer stations take all the garbage from phx metro and surrounding cities to MOBILE,ARIZONA.


mobile ,az. is south of phx. it is along the southern pacific r.r. tracks. at this location all metro phx trash arrives. i used to call on their machine shop and had the honor of getting a tour.


now heres the part most of you "green folk" dont realize. this type of dump is an equal to 1000's across the country. it has massive conveyor belts and EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF TRASH IS SORTED BY CONTENT!


yep guys dressed in haz mat bunny suits SORTING ALL THE TRASH.


so what this means is YOU ARE PAYING your trash service for recycle bins per month, and actually DOING THEIR JOB WHICH YOU PAY FOR ALREADY!


if a plastics truck comes in, its placed on plastic conveyor. if paper comes in ditto. if a general garbage ft end loader truck comes in, it goes onto the general conveyor and IT IS SORTED!

dont fool yerself yer helping the environment, all yer doing is a scam perpetuated by the waste companies to do THEIR JOB! multiple by 5 million people give or take. and then waste company sells recycled product to mfg's and it becomes pure PROFIT for waste company.


ie. if you dont recycle.................it still gets sorted and sold. and you pay extra $$$ per month per wood/plastics/metal/glass bins.


think about dat!

The superfund is called rinsing your fruits and vegetables before you prepare them. See, you're part of the solution and didn't even realize it. If that bothers you maybe you could dump some oil down the drain as a pick me up.

Fun Facts...

Plastic is 2nd largest volume of material (18%) going to California landfills – paper (30%)- therefore plastics most significant part of the marine litter problem

Plastic accounts for over 3\4 of all debris found In the marine environment

90% of floating litter is plastic

60% of debris collected annually by Coastal Cleanup volunteers on beaches world-wide is plastic

In Southern Atlantic Ocean, quantity of debris increased 100 times in the early 1900s.

In coastal areas of Japan, from the 1970s to the 1980s, marine plastic particle densities increased ten fold in 10 years.

In the 1990s in Japan, densities appear to have increased ten fold every 2-3 years.


267 species known to be effected, including 86% of all sea turtle species, 44% of all sea bird species, 43% of marine mammal species die of ingestion, entanglement, starvation, suffocation

20 years ago, researchers estimated 100,000 marine mammal deaths per year in N. Pacific related to entanglement in fishing gear

Between 700,000 and 1 million seabirds are killed from entanglement or ingestion each year


20-40 % comes from ocean-based sources
- Commercial fishing vessels
- Cargo ships (overboard discharge of containers and garbage)
- Pleasure cruise ships

60-80% of marine debris comes from land-based sources:
- Litter (pedestrians, motorists, beach visitors)
- Industrial discharges (pellets and powders)
- Garbage management (containers, trucks, landfills)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254343582.jpg


One tough animal! Don't people pay big bucks for one of these?

did read all the posts, but how about a picture of this monsterous flowing island?

How is one supposed to take a photo of it if you can't even see it?

Maybe you read all of them except post #13.

Wait... call the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, and Michael Moore... I bet they could find it and take a photo of it.

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u...s_Ocean--2.jpg

BS ....or does this not account for the massive amount of 'natural' debris? -I see a lot more driftwood washed up onto the shore than "plastic" ...btw, just how far away, from plastic is cellulose? :cool:

Follow me here: Three quarters of the worlds populations live within 10 miles of the coasts(I thunk) and depend on the oceans as a major food source.
No food leads to starvation, leads to political upheavals, leads to strife with a variety of weapons(i.e. nuclear).
It will come, hopefully not in my lifetime.

(ok, just a little dramatic)

Just how many miles of the U.S. coastline are you observing on a regular basis?

"Since I can't see it on the 100 yards of beach I visit, the problem isn't real anywhere else in the world."

is that your position?