Plastic engine anyone?

[masraum]

The guys got a 300hp engine that weighs 152pounds. Sweet, I'll take one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/automobiles/25PLASTIC.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

[svandamme]

We're rebuilding engine blocks built in the sixties and seventies.
some older brand/model cars still get rebuilds on their engines


Will those plastic engines deliver similar staying power?

[legion]

Similarly, I think the article dances around the issues of lifespan and reliability. We know the engines run for somewhere between 20 minutes and a whole racing season without breaking down. They state that a plastic engine was used in IMSA in the 80's, but we're not told if a new engine was used for every race. We're also not told about potential issues with ambient temperature changes. (Plastic tends to become very brittle at cold temperatures.)

For an article that is advocating a radical new technology, it is awful short on facts. I strongly suspect that there are some major issues with this kind of engine that the article completely ignores. I'd also think this would attract manufacturers and racing teams if the technology was so promising.

[The Gaijin]

Technology marches on. One day we will laugh at the thought of cast iron engine blocks..

Ford flathead V-8 blocks are now available in aluminum.

[john70t]

Ceramic composites also supposedly hold and transfer the heat without warping.

I'd love to see a cheap, lightweight, snap-tight type engine that the average joe can assemble without the crucial (changing clearances) and machining.
Servicability needs to get back into the hands of the consumer.

[john70t]

From the artical: "But Mr. Holtzberg failed to persuade carmakers that the benefits — major weight and cost savings — were worth the risk"= Made in Japan/China/etc. We'll keep catching up.

[legion]

I guess I don't see why Formula 1 didn't jump all over this if it is as promising as the article makes it sound. They already make parts of the engines out of carbon fiber.

I really suspect there is something more going on here that the article fails to mention.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by john70t

Servicability needs to get back into the hands of the consumer.

How true you are, I don't need to have the last 20 years of my life anymore, All my tools, and amassed knowledge should all be for no reason.
Nope I don't need to eat, or have a home, or anything.
Yup, let the consumer just remove my lively hood.
Great idea, thanks

[svandamme]

as long as stupidity is also in the hands of the consumer , i wouldn't worry about it Rick.

[slakjaw]

When I was turning a wrench a lady brought in her Mercedes and said "its making noise" It was out of oil.... Thing is, there was a full case in the trunk.

You have nothing to worry about Rick.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by legion

They already make parts of the engines out of carbon fiber.

F1 tranny cases have been carbon fiber for years. These are stressed members of the chassis.

[slakjaw]

Whats the diff between carbon fiber and fiber glass?

[svandamme]

eeh, one is made out of silica, the other out of carbon(stronger)?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by john70t

Ceramic composites also supposedly hold and transfer the heat without warping.

I'd love to see a cheap, lightweight, snap-tight type engine that the average joe can assemble without the crucial (changing clearances) and machining.
Servicability needs to get back into the hands of the consumer.

Old family friend, my surrogate uncle, is an ex 917 works guy.

His major complaint is that back in the day everything on a car was designed to be rebuilt, today mechanics just replace whatever the diagnostic computer tells them to.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by john70t

Ceramic composites also supposedly hold and transfer the heat without warping.

I read an article about 18 years ago which proposed ceramic cylinders (piston liners) and a plastic block. Other parts that had to be would be aluminum. Each material being used for what it could most offer.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Rick V

How true you are, I don't need to have the last 20 years of my life anymore, All my tools, and amassed knowledge should all be for no reason.
Nope I don't need to eat, or have a home, or anything.
Yup, let the consumer just remove my lively hood.
Great idea, thanks

My point:
-There are more cars on the road and new cars are becoming disposably-designed instead of being rebuilt (i.e. the average consumer will probably toss a pefectly good car if the door handle keeps falling off).
-The local machine shops seem to be dissapearing.
-Shop class is non-existant and the pool of new mechanics is drying up.
-Designs become more complicated, so the shops liabilty for bad fixes/broken parts is greater.
-Small shops get locked out of manufacturers OBD2/other data, PETs, and/or parts access which makes it more difficult for them to complete.

I take it you are a small shop owner Rick? Good. There needs to be more of you guys around, so please don't misread into my post. There will always be a small percentage of DIY'ers, but the majority of people will continue getting their vehicles professionally fixed.
If engines were easier to fix, then perhaps they would be. There's a benefit to having standardized units of measure and common parts sizes.
FWIW, we are on a mostly DIY website.

[asphaltgambler]

never let the facts get in the way of a good article

[Rick V]

John, no harm no foul, and not a personal attack, just kinda hurting in the industry right now.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by legion

I guess I don't see why Formula 1 didn't jump all over this if it is as promising as the article makes it sound. They already make parts of the engines out of carbon fiber.

I really suspect there is something more going on here that the article fails to mention.

I'm not certain but I think I read somewhere the F1 rules spec that the short block be made of metal.

It would be way cool if they did make a composite F1 engine.