MD-11 crash in China

[rick-l]

American crew a couple days ago.

US investigators to assist Shanghai MD-11 crash inquiry

Would loss of an engine cause this on takeoff?

Is V1 supposed to be figured out for loss of one engine?

On takeoff would a big plane stall and come down tail first or was that just the desire to reach minimum unstick velocity?

[fingpilot]

Rick;

We are assuming everybody followed the rules. The airline involved has a checkered past. While the crew by reputations seem to be legit, the operations and financial parts of this airline are dubious.

Some different postulations are surfacing. Runway length should not have been an issue (playing by the rules). The MD11(F) has some 'peculiarities', not usually on takeoff, though. The loss of the center engine produces a nose up moment, but that was not the reason for the tail strike. It looks like that was an over-rotation at the end of the runway. The plane did get 10 feet airbourne, striking the localizer antenna, and losing speed and altitude doing so.

The possibility of a cargo shift going airbourne is also a possibility. The sad part is the loss of the crew. The DFR and the CVR have been recovered.

[Joeaksa]

Not enough details to really tell much but "unconfirmed reports of a tail strike" make me wonder if the cargo was not tied down well and shifted upon takeoff.

Once that happens you are "along for the ride" and nothing you can do but pray...

[450knotOffice]

Fine Air lost a DC-8 in Miami twelve years ago after a 45 ton load of raw denim shifted aft during the takeoff roll.

[red-beard]

Who would bother to airfreight denim?

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Who would bother to airfreight denim?

Stuff enough "rabbit food" in the denim and it makes the trip worth it!

[Jim727]

Agree on the load shift possibility. One additional possibility is that the weight and balance was falsified or incorrectly calculated. One of my squadron mates experienced this and it wasn't pretty - a bit worse and he wouldn't have made it.

[fingpilot]

The air cargo world is a really different arena. You really bet your butt on the loadmaster and dispatcher. So many instances of the paperwork not matching the cargo. Weight, HazMat, 'consumer electronics', 'hard rice', just to name a few.

I flew 25+ gym bags to the Haj once, by way of Zurich. The pax got out in Zurich for a 1 night layover. Came back with only shaving kits, and jewelry bags. Read much later that one of my pax had absconded from his country with several bil.

Have lots of those stories. You develop a sixth sense about what's in the bags or in the hold.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Have lots of those stories. You develop a sixth sense about what's in the bags or in the hold.

Boy you are spot on there!

Was flying someone out of London recently. Not going to say where nor who. He always had lots of bags full of "heavy books" or so the other pilot's said. BS meter kept going off in the back of my head.

Came out months later that he had taken billions out of his home country and that the authorities were now looking for it. It was his money from what we hear but that it was illegal to take more than certain amounts out at one time.

[air-cool-me]

Sim partner flew with all 3 at GAC..
4000m runway.. only got 10 feet off the ground.. and the aircraft is no slouch in the acceleration category.
i am sure there is other stuff going on with deferrals/ cargo ext...