I think that aiming for the head makes no sense unless you are a very highly trained fighter or are playing a shooting game with cardboard targets. I think that for normal people with good training, when actually under attack, you will do well to just hit the torso. As we all recall, someone here on PPOT was recently forced to shoot an attacker at very close range, and if I recall correctly I believe he wounded the man's finger.

If it was me, I would aim for center mass since I'm not that proficient a shooter yet.

I dunno if you all would consider this a 'mouse gun' or not but I primarily carry a SW Air Lite in 22 WMR. It is a seven shot wheel gun and I also installed Crimson Trace grips. Unloaded it weighs only ten ounces. If you have ever seen what a 22 Magnum hollow point does to flesh you know it unleashes some energy. I agree that under duress a head shot is gonna be very difficult so a center mass aim is the way to go. A second shot with a wheel gun is gonna be a lot more reliable than a semi auto and a couple of 22 mags in center mass is gonna put the guy down.

I am not really a gun guy and one reason I can't seem to get into them is the seemingly endless discussions about stopping power. Does it ever freakin' end?

I might be able to understand if you had to shoot a few people a week and had some hard evidence to base this stuff on other than shooting gel blocks and pig carcasses.

How many people have you guys shot that weren't deterred from what they were doing?

If your round fails, so does your life.

I think that explains the fascination people have with the latest, greatest bullet. Besides, guns are a hobby, so buying the latest/greatest this or that is just a way to enjoy your hobby more.

On the topic of Ammo, Az, this is by far the most powerful .380 auto ammo i have seen on the market:

Take your pick:

SKU: 27A/20 380 Auto +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo
380 Auto +P Ammo - 100 gr. Hardcast F.N. (1150fps/ M.E. 294 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box
$24.12

http://www.buffalobore.com/

I use buffalo bore hard cast lead FN bullets in my Kel Tec. It's pricey, but then again, you are relying on the stuff with your life.



Manufacturer: Buffalo Bore


SKU: 27C/20 380 Auto +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo
380 Auto +P Ammo - 90 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1200fps M.E. 288 ft. lbs. - 20 Round Box
$24.12




Manufacturer: Buffalo Bore

My only problem with relying on rimfires is that rimfire ammunition has a tendency to not always go "bang" when you pull the trigger.

.22 mag has decent performance, and is similiar in performance/energy to the best .32 auto ammunition i guess, but because it is a rim fire, i stay away.

If i was going to buy a .22 mag handgun, it would be this one. :)

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...r_30_2-tfb.jpg

The PMR-30 holds thirty shots of ammunition in the grip mag. :)

Thanks for that info. I'm surprised to hear you say that about rim fire ammo as I have never had that happen and shoot quite a lot. As for that Kel-Tec...it would not be legal in the People's Republic of Kalifornia. Also, as I said, I prefer wheel guns. I have two other hand guns on my carry permit both loaded with 38 +P. Still, I find myself carrying the SW Air Lite because it's so easy to stash and lite.

I'm the same way with my Kel Tec .32. I have larger, more powerful weapons i could carry, but the .32 wins every time because it's so damn small and handy.

I've had lots of problems in the past with rimfire ammo not going off. I must say i'm surprised it's never happened to you. BTW, i have a CT laser on my Kel Tec too....i'm with you, it's a great unit. :)

PS: The best part about my Pa carry permit is that it does not list a firearm type. I could carry an AR if i could conceal it. :)

Same here.

And in a real world situation I think a center of mass shot has a much great chance of a hit than does trying, under pressure, to make a head shot.

The simple fact that a torso is much larger than a head would dictate that observation to be true.

I practice taking head shots at the range all the time, but my CCW pistol does have a laser on it. That makes it a hell of a lot simpler IMO.

There are usually steps in any real world life-threatening confrontation:
1. Encounter
2. Realization that escape/etc. is not an option. Fear paralysation sets in.
3. (Ir)Rationalize some hope of negotiation, regardless of circumstance.
4. Need for engagement. Perp will either flee or do the stupid thing.
5. Engage with confidence.

It doesn't matter what caliber is chambered, an intended bullet not connecting to target is a useless bullet.

Women are less willing to automatically kill an intruder, so a "wounding" caliber is one that will be used with more confidence. Smaller caliber are also easier on the wrists to shoot off-angle, and produce less startling noise for the shooter. If there's a misfire with a wheel gun, pull the trigger again.
After up to six small-caliber bullets in them, most agressors are of the nature to flee or remain in place.

Kel-Tec pistols are not available in California, anyway. A S&W .38 or .357 would be a good choice.

Excuse me, choich

was in the gun store last weekend and was asking the clerk if he had any on hand since none were in the case...no, but they are coming in next week do want to order one? on the basis of the reviews, i said sure here's my deposit.

the LCP i have on order should be in my hands early next week. for those of you with one, how do you like it?
what are you doing for a holster? have a blackhawk pocket holster coming in at the same time.
saw on youtube some videos on converting a kel tec belt clip to work on the LCP anyone try this? looks easy, could probably mfg one myself off a pocket knife that fell apart this weekend.

*A small pistol is far more liable to jam if the mechanics of your wrist are wrong than a large one is. The term for it is "limp wristing." It is a common problem among weak handed/wristed people that take up shooting pocket pistols.

* A smaller, shorter barreled gun will be even louder than a normal sized one. Pocket pistols invariably have very short barrels, so are very loud. Of course, as i pointed out, many shooting survivors never even hear the gunshots, or perceive muzzle blast or recoil at all. The adrenaline blocks all that out, making it inconsequential. So that is not even a consideration that i look at.

*Those with weak hands tend to find the action on a small pocket pistol to be very difficult to operate, even more so than a large caliber automatic like a 1911A1 .45 auto. If you cannot operate the slide reasonably well on any gun, you should not be using it. This is one of the key reasons that a pocket pistol is a bad choice for most women. They will struggle mightily with the slide.

*In a life or death situation you may have time to get off only a single round before your attacker is upon you. A single .357 magnum probably has about 200% more chance to stop an attacker immediately with a single hit than a .32 auto does, and probably 100% more chance than a .380 does...given identical shot placement. If you're a man and you have to struggle hand to hand with a shot and wounded aggressor it's bad enough. For a woman- who is much weaker physically- to have to do it, it's liable to be fatal for her.

*Finally, i do not believe that a woman is any more or less likely to be gripped with fear/paralysis, or be less likely to kill.

That is actually the exact opposite of my experience. In my experience, women can be quite cold and heartless...

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:D

There are plenty of holsters on the market for the KT/Ruger(it is an almost direct bite off the KT anyway).

You may have problems pocket carrying the Ruger, it is a good deal larger than a .32 KT, and a little heavier than a .380 KT, and many KT owners say that the .32 is far easier to conceal in a pocket than a .380 KT.

Let us know. ;)

I have the DeSantis Nemesis ($20) holster. I'm getting the Wolff spring kit to adjust the action for a little less recoil and to stop the ejected brass from flying 20ft away and to the front (ahead of the firing line). Because I reload, I want to recover my brass during range sessions. Lube the slide generously before firing the LCP , especially the 2st time and put at least 100 rounds through it to break it in...

This site has a lot of pertinent info...

elsiepeaforum.com

Anyone here have any .380 brass that they want to sell? I'm reloading it and I have everything I need but enough brass to reload. Thanks!

I just reloaded the 200 .380 ACP cartridges that we shot last Saturday. Pretty good turn-around time!

Reloading can be a lot of fun. I haven't done it in about 10 years or so, maybe i should start again.

Sniper,
Yes, you should! Reloading keeps me out of trouble during thew long MI winters. I reload all winter, visit the range weekly and the winter goes by much faster!! Components are hard to get, but that just makes it more of a challenge for me...