Unloaded Open Carry in California...
 

Yup, it's legal to carry an unloaded, unconcealed weapon and ammo clips in public, in California. If this catches on, "must issue" CCW permits may be in the future for the Republik of Kalifornia. Stay tuned...

Bay Area group advocates open carry of unloaded guns - 1/05/10 - San Francisco News - abc7news.com

Saw that on the news last night.. Local police nazi's treated the guy like he was a terrorist...

Hey, if someone calls the cops, they have to check it out. They checked it out, and were 'nice enough.'

I have not found any evidence that you can't have a gun rack in your truck with a rifle in it. It just can't be loaded and the ammo has to be separate from the gun.

George

No chance. They'll just make open/unloaded illegal.

Go onto the forums at calguns.net. Every once in a while someone tries this and ends up getting their skull thumped by local L.E. as a result, which stirs up a hornets nest. Yes, it's one of those things that is technically legal, should be legal and probably should be challenged, but the reality is it's going to bring trouble upon you.

Personally I can see NO, ZERO reason to ever carry an unloaded gun. Stupid. It's only a way of advertising that you're looking for trouble and when it finds you (which it inevitably will), you'll be just as unarmed as some poor schlub with no gun at all.

An unloaded gun is a paperweight. You might as well throw it at someone's head. In a situation where a gun would be handy (CCW), the time it takes to draw, load, chamber and unsafe can easily make the difference between making a difference and getting killed.

I guarantee you, the bad guy's gun WILL be loaded.

That's the point of conspicuously complying with the law. The public is not any safer by denying concealment permits. This illustrates the point that concealed carry permits won't endanger society. Basically open carry unloaded says: "the law already allows for gun owners to put the public in peril without safeguarding their person, permitting citizens to carry concealed will improve the safety of individuals and will not imperil society", maybe the public will get the message.

I've heard a large number of 911 calls in AZ are from KA transplants or visitors, calling in someone for open carrying. Of course, here we can open carry anything we can carry and always loaded. I saw a rifle on a motorcycle about a month ago. Maybe that idiot Frommer will promise to boycott CA now too.

Regardless of what message the open carry Californians "think" they are sending, the message that the public is getting is: gun owners are aggressive, scary, unbalanced people with small wee-wees.

If Californians want to send a positive message about guns, they should spend their effort on bringing someone who doesn't shoot, and a .22, to the range.

Not to mention the stupidity of parading around displaying a valuable and unloaded gun. The only reason these dolts are safe is because they are in suburban shopping malls and surrounded by police officers.

How does OC look like small dick compensation to anyone? I never got that. A few local groups have open carry dinners in Phoenix and Tucson once a month and restaurants compete for their business. There's no safer place in town than whatever restaurant is hosting the monthly OC dinner and everyone knows it. Never has been a problem at any of them. If I were into taking down public places, I'd definitely go after the ones with the gun buster signs (though I personally ignore those).

Respectfully John, that is utter nonsense

Seriously, Tobra, do you think that the average Californian, when she or he sees a man (who is obviously not a police officer) walking into the mall, or the diner, or the grocery store with a pistol strapped to his side, says to herself or himself: "now there goes a peaceable, reassuring, normal person"? If you do, then explain why that average Californian promptly calls 911 and asks for police help?

Rick, I'm talking about CA public reaction. I don't know what the typical Arizonian, if that is a word, thinks. I've never lived in AZ. And yes, of course the safest place to be is the restaurant hosting the weekly open-carry dinner. (Followed closely by the restaurant not hosting the weekly open carry dinner.)

what would freud say about people who spend so much time speculating on/ and denigrating other men's genitalia? and adult's who call it a "wee wee"?


the problem i have is that there is nothing more useless than an unloaded gun. your essentially wandering around defenseless with a big valuable object gangbangers would REALLY love to steal.

i was out in the orchards shooting "cans" & had my .44 holstered when the county deputy sheriff drove up to me.
he didn't have any problem with me having open carry, even with the gun loaded, (although he did undo the snap on his holster) all he did was check the # on the gun to make sure it wasn't stolen & checked my ID to make sure i wasn't a felon.
He only told me to pack up & leave as i was on private property.
I think if i wasn't trespassing, he would have shot some "cans" with me

Say you want to go to your local firing range. And say you don't own a car. How would a law abiding citizen get his gun(s) to the range? In a locked case? Isn't that consealed? And where would you put the ammo?

there is simply nothing written telling me how to carry a gun on a motorcycle. total grey area.

NRA-ILA sent me an e-mail recently about a proposed CCW "shall issue" bill in California. Wonder what the odds are of that passing . . .

By the way, the law in California regarding switchblades was recently changed by a court decision. It is now illegal to carry a switchblade in your home. You can possess a switchblade in your home, but you cannot carry it. FYI.

I haven't checked the CA laws in a few years. But my recollection is, if in a vehicle, weapon must be unloaded and in a part of the vehicle out of your immediate reach (trunk) or in a locked container (which can be in the passenger compartment). I don't recall if ammo has to be in a separate container. I carried my pistols in a locked case w/ ammo in a separate compartment of that case. Every shooting range I've been to will require guns to be carried in a case of some sort anyway, if you walk in with your pistol dangling from your hand or shoved in your pocket or riding on your belt, you will usually get kicked out. So, to answer the question, in CA you can carry your gun in a locked case on your motorcycle.

I don't know what Freud would say about the average Californian, sorry.

I think John is absolutely correct about how many hoplophobes perceive gun owners. They view having a gun as an act of intimidation, not of providing for personal safety (unless carried by a body guard, secret service, or someone else they see as "qualified".)

These are people who think the skills to properly and safely handle a gun are out of the reach of the average person.

And those people are totally wrong, but you don't change their views by acting like a gun weirdo. You change it by bringing them to the range, letting them see how fun shooting is, how safe gun handling is if simple rules are followed, and how normal and likeable most gun owners are. Then they want a gun themselves, and you've converted another hoplophobe rather than created one.

I heard it's legal to own a switchblade in KA only if you're missing one hand or arm. Yes, really.

I use my swtichblade all the time. It sits on my kitchen counter and is immediately accessible without the hazard of an exposed blade or having to pull a long blade from a block. The only problem is the steel isn't great (made in Italy) so mine doesn't stay as sharp as a good Chefs knife.

Yeppers, anyone carring an unload gun around on their hip is a fool, in any state of the USA.

I live in Livermore, and it was certainly a surprise to see the demonstration take place here. This is a ranching town, slowly becoming more urbanized with tract homes and wineries, but there are still some Open Range attitudes around these parts. I am a gun owner, and I've always wondered about open carry, since it's a no-go in Kalifornia to get a CCW. That never seemed to make any sense, and it seems the debate will be amplified in the coming months. Interestingly, the main supporters of OC are asking these "demonstrators" to refrain from this activity until after a Federal case in Chicago regarding Constitutional CCW rights is decided in June. Their feeling is that these open carry demonstrations will excite the Legislature in California to act before the Federal case is decided. They are very optimistic that the Federal case will establish the right to carry and conceal a weapon for all individuals. Once that is decided, the open carry crown will ramp up their demonstrations which will put pressure on the Legislature to change the CCW laws in Cali.

Should be fun to watch.

I'd rather have an unloaded gun on one hip with the magazines in the belt right alongside than have to take my chances waiting on LEOs to arrive. How long do you think it would really take to slap a clip in the gun under pressure? Unloaded Open Carry doesn't mean you can't have ammo. It means the magazine can't be in the gun.

Have to change the US Constitution to do that. Ain't happenin.

precisely

You're going to have to find that for us. The "earlier" version of the law explicitly allowed switchblades with blades under 2 inches of length, and no others (beyond the federal mandate of one armed people). I found nothing in the California Penal Code that changes that, nor any reference to a Bill that changes that. If you know of some new law, then please help me find it, because the State of California doesn't show it in their Codes.

That is a federal law that applies to all Americans. Switchblade under 3 inches is legal to carry if you are missing an arm. The law is archaic, since there are plenty of non-automatic knives that can be opened and closed with one hand now, but back when they law was enacted such one handed openers didn't exist (or were of junk quality).

Your description of a free person exercising their "inalienable" right to protect themselves as "acting like a gun weirdo" is what needs changing. When will people begin to realize that the Constitution has nothing to do with allowing me to keep or bear arms, it has everything to do with PREVENTING THE GOVERNMENT FROM INFRINGING ON THAT RIGHT. I don't even need the Constitution to tell me I can have a gun. I was born with that right. Wise men created a document for us which LIMITS the powers of the government, it does not bestow rights.

Mr Bradshaw, are you contemplating coming to Cali packing a switchblade? I always preferred the butterfly knives, myself.
This is what I thought was ridiculous John. I don't think you are going to bring many, if any folks over to being gun enthusiasts. I think legal, civil disobedience is an excellent means to an end. Calling attention to California and other state and local municipalities violating 2nd amendment rights is not small dicked men looking for attention. While I can see your point, I don't think it is valid. The number of criminals carrying a weapon on their hip is vanishingly small. I will say this prompting the legislature to enact further, unconstitutional anti gun legislation as a knee jerk reaction is a point well taken as there is a long history of them doing ill advised things.

For example, the anti "assault weapon" legislation was enacted as a reaction to a massacre of grade school kids in Stockton by a lone gunman with a semi-automatic rifle. "What about the children," was a phrase uttered at many speeches. Thank goodness they passed this:rolleyes:

Of course, if this legislation had been in place for 100 years prior to this tragedy it would not have made any difference at all. The lunatic in question bought all his guns and ammo in Oregon.

True story.

Back in 83 I was attending the Pacific Area Law Enforcement Academy in Modesto CA. This was a required training program for Coast Guard Boarding Officers. While riding my Harley between classes with a Colt ACP in a tactual holster, I was stopped for my handlebars being too tall. When Barney Fife saw my gun, He asked if it was loaded. I replied that "all guns are always loaded." Shortly I was laying face down, spread eagle waiting for "back up" to arrive. (Barney was approx 5' 3" and I'm 6" 195 dressed in black leather) After the Lt showed up and saw my badge and ID I was told that they would appreciate me not carrying a gun in public.
I was born in CA and have lived most of my adult life here. The State does not need to know what's in my house or car or under my coat unless
I am a felon or a terrorist suspect.
Thanks to new laws the price of ammo is keeping me from taking my kids to the range very often.

Kenny
67 912 (sold at a ridiculous profit)
77 911 (daily driver)
87 924s (now Son's daily driver)
71 Harley XLCH (long, low, loud and fast)

That is about right for handguns. Long guns can be transported in the vehicle without being locked. They only have to be unloaded.

George

If they actually made Kalifornia a "shall issue" CCW state I'd consider moving back there someday. Maybe. Certainly not until then though. There are too many situations that come up out there where I'd be FAR more comfortable knowing I had protection on me "just in case".

California Penal Code section 653k:

Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.

If you read that section, it sounds like possessing a switchblade is legal under certain circumstances, primarily in non-public places, like a home. A recent California appellate court said that it is not illegal to have a switchblade in your glove compartment so long as your vehicle is in a private place, like a garage. But, the phrase "carries upon his or her person" applies in both public and private places, including your home. So, you can carry a switchblade in your glove compartment but as soon as you pick it up, "carry" it, you are breaking the law.

Somehow I have survived living in Los Angeles for 52 years without carrying a gun.

Just sayin...

And I do own several guns, and think it should be legal to carry FWIW.

That's old code, and what it means is that you cannot be in public or in your car with a switchblade knife who's blade is longer than 2 inches. Feral law also prevents you from buying a switchblade that has been sold across state lines, so you are restricted to companies in the state. This is why there are several companies that make "California Specials", which are manufactured in state, and have a 1 7/8" blade.

There may be new interpretations of the law, but it's not changed (yet). California had such generic knife laws that they have had to change the code to more properly describe what was meant (a ball point pen used to be a "dangerous weapon" under their dirk and dagger definition).

Mike,

I'm not sure what you mean by "old code." That is current law and the court case I referenced is from 2009 and upheld the conviction of a person who had a switchblade in his pocket while in his home. That means that you cannot carry a swithcblade ANYWHERE - public or private.

By "old code" I mean "been on the books for years". You mentioned a new law, which it seems is not the case.

The code was always understood among owners and dealers that "if you're caught having or owning a switchblade with a blade over 2 inches, you are breaking the law". It seems that this recent interpretation supports most of that assumption.

It's the minutia of legalese whether an appellate court decision can be understood as "new law". I'm not calling out or anything, I just wanted to know if there was an actual change to the code, and if so, where it was, because the state page didn't show any changes to the knife laws.