Mercedes E350 Opinions?

[IROC]

OK, we've got a 2001 4Runner that has served duty as a family vehicle for years and we are now looking for something different. We like Toyotas and a Camry would be a perfectly fine vehicle (or even a newer 4Runner), but I have also been noticing here lately that a used Mercedes E350 (2007 or 2008) can be had for about the same money.

I am of the mindset that the Mercedes should be the better vehicle all around, but I don't really know that much about them. Any opinions?

[IROC]

Monday bump?

[onewhippedpuppy]

I think there's several on here that have them, hopefully you'll get a response. It will be a big upgrade over the Toyota, though probably not as bulletproof. MB has improved their quality since the dark days of the Daimler-Chrysler merger, but German cars always need some occasional love.

[Chocaholic]

I'd agree. Toyota is an appliance with no detectable character or soul. MB is the opposite. An enjoyable car to own and to work on. Parts are well made and very DIY-able. Not as reliable as the stamped-out Toyota, but not troublesome either. If you don't mind tinkering on occasion, you won't be disappointed at all with an E-350.

[temo79]

my brother has a 6 y/o MB and just traded it in for a Lexus because the repair bills were always over $400. Although an 2 y/o car should have some sort of transferable warranty.

[EarlyPorsche]

Make sure you google "benz ABC" or "mercedes ABC system" and see if the used on has the ABC system or normal struts. If it has ABC you will want to switch to normal struts because the system is major expensive.

[Dottore]

check out Mercedes-Benz Forum

[MRM]

My wife and I faced the same question. We have been driving Camrys for the last ten years and love them to death. It's hard not to like a pleasant, reliable car that starts without drama every time you turn the key.

For us it was finally time to step up to a nicer car. We worked with Pelicanite Kaisen, who is local to us and has access to wholesale auctions and considered pretty much every alternative out there. Our requirements were that it had to be a luxury car with some performance, some brand appeal, pretty good reliability, and have AWD. We wouldn't consider an Audi for a variety of reasons. Lexus seems nice but expensive for what you get. It seemed to us like a well equiped Camry or Avalon wasn't much different than a Lexus. She didn't like any of the other Japanese brands, so that pretty much narrowed it down to Mercedes and BMW.

We ended up comparing the 5 Series BMWs with the E350 and E500.

Our immediate impression was that any E Class that was older than 2007 was a complete nonstarter. They were OK cars, but sitting in one felt as outdated as sitting in a grandmother's living room, and not any more comfortable. When I test drove a couple I kept looking around, wondering where the luxury was.

Then we looked at 5 Series BMWs, all 06 or newer. They were much improved on the interior and that made the Mercedes look even more dated. We drove a 535 and almost had to wipe ourselves down afterword. That is one great car. Almost all of the BMWs in the 06 and later range looked and felt updated and luxurious.

Finally, we drove an 07 E350 back to back with the 535 BMW. I had resisted driving the Mercedes because I had been so underwhelmed by the 06 model. But I was as impressed with the 07 as I was underwhelmed with the 06. The 07 refresh really dressed up the interior. It's not that different of a car, but the overall result of the small changes was dramatic. My wife like the tuning set more to luxury than sport, anyway, so we ended up equally impressed with the 535 and E350 with the 535 noticably sportier than the E350 and the fit, finish and interiors being equal. The 535 had lots more power, but driving around town you wouldn't notice the difference. We really ended up liking the E350 and 535 equally.

In the end we went with the E350 because there is a dealer close to our house (the BMW dealer is on the other side of town) and Kaisen got us a great deal on it. If I was all that worried about performance I would have spent the extra to get a E500. They're really cool, too.

As I said, I gave it to my wife for Christmas. She's driven it mostly since then but I've had my chances to drive it, to and I can give you my driving impressions. It has performed flawlessly in the ice and snow we've had constantly since Christmas. It has plenty of power for daily driving. If I was going to the track I would need the 535, but th E350 doesn't leave me wanting. I drove down to Rochester over the weekend, and the more I drive it and the longer the trip is, the more I like the car. It's nice, solid, pleasant to be in, capable, and looks nice from inside or out. It's just a really nice car. It's quiet, smooth, all the things a Mercedes is supposed to be.

With the redesigned 2010s coming out, even 07-09 E350 prices are coming down. I think they're a pretty good deal. I'd recommend PM'ing Eric (Kaisen) and seeing what he can get you wholesale through an auction. The 07s and 08s are coming off lease right now, and there are thousands available. Ours has almost two years worth of warranty left. So far we haven't noticed anything that gives us any cause for concern. We highly recommend it.

[IROC]

Excellent info. I hadn't considered the BMW but will have to take a look. This vehicle will be my wife's primarily and what we will use on weekend trips, etc. It hadn't occurred to me that cars were coming off lease. I stopped at our local Benz dealer yesterday (less than 10 minutes from my house) and they had 4 or 5 used E350s on the lot.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by MRM

With the redesigned 2010s coming out, even 07-09 E350 prices are coming down. I think they're a pretty good deal. I'd recommend PM'ing Eric (Kaisen) and seeing what he can get you wholesale through an auction. The 07s and 08s are coming off lease right now, and there are thousands available. Ours has almost two years worth of warranty left. So far we haven't noticed anything that gives us any cause for concern. We highly recommend it.

Mike M, thanks for the referral and your repeat patronage. It's always fun helping a Pelican!

Mike D, there are two nearby auctions, Nashville and Atlanta, where Mercedes Benz Financial wholesales their lease returns. I have access and experience at both. MRM needed a 4Matic (or BMW Xi) to handle the daily grind in our MN winter wonderland, but I assume you are looking for a standard rear-drive model. There are several hundred to choose from every week.

Without sharing too much of MRM's specific deal, he can verify that it saved him about $30K from new and about $10K from retail book value. More importantly, he got exactly what he wanted, in nearly flawless condition.

The BMW is a fine car, but since their redesign doesn't hit the US until next year, they haven't fallen as far in value. Particularly, the 535 twin-turbos are still fairly desireable as they just came out in '08. When MRM and I went through the data, the 535Xi brought abot 15% more than a comparable E350W4 - a fair chunk of change if you don't lust for the thrust. I have equal access to BMW Financial offerings if you'd like to compare.

Let me know if you'd like any assistance, data, or advice. Good luck!

E

[McLovin]

The 07 and up E350s are great. They are better than the 06 and earlier, if anything, because they finally got rid of the electric braking system (SBC) in 07.

Almost all E350s also have the standard spring suspension, not the air suspension.

The air suspension is actually quite nice, when it's working, but I'd rather have the simple, inexpensive normal suspension.

The 07 and up E350 was the end of the line for that body style, so it is the most developed and the most bug free. They are actually pretty simple, straightforward cars.

[McLovin]

The only thing I'd disagree with on the above posts is that the E350 has any kind of "soul."

I've had a couple, and while nice cars, they are IMO appliances. German Toyota Avalons.

[berettafan]

kaisen how do the wholesale prices you get for say an '07 E350 compare to a dealer's best used price w/ the starmark warranty (100k miles right?)?

[McLovin]

What's really weird is that wholesale/auction prices on cars like the '07 E350 (and other similar cars, BMW, etc.) have not really gone down in more than a year. They have been going at auction for the same prices for a year now. Very odd.

Current national average for an 07 E350 at MB auction is just under $25K for a car with an average of 35K miles.

Average for one with lower miles (17K miles) is right around $27.5K.

The economy is a weird thing. It seems to me that the hurting economy has decreased demand for new cars, but increased it for used.

I think "Starmark" etc. is over rated and over priced. They really don't do much, and an 07 is still under full factory warranty anyways. The biggest thing to look for is if the car has been accident damaged. But you have to do that equally with a non Starmark or Starmark car, b/c they don't always disclose accident damage or repaint work.

If you are really concerned about post warranty, you can get an extended warranty from good companies like Warranty Direct.

[berettafan]

i am not too trusting of 3rd party warranty co's. don't believe they really can function as they claim. One has to consider factory warranties are getting parts for cost and likely experience other economies of scale that simply aren't available to outside co's.

so then it comes back to how comfortable i am owning a brand like MB or BMW with a very short (as new car warranties are) factory warranty. and, as my question asked, just how much $$ it costs to go with a dealer and the factory used warranty vs. a wholesaler.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Current national average for an 07 E350 at MB auction is just under $25K for a car with an average of 35K miles.

This is about what the local dealership is selling them for...

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by berettafan

i am not too trusting of 3rd party warranty co's. don't believe they really can function as they claim. One has to consider factory warranties are getting parts for cost and likely experience other economies of scale that simply aren't available to outside co's.

so then it comes back to how comfortable i am owning a brand like MB or BMW with a very short (as new car warranties are) factory warranty. and, as my question asked, just how much $$ it costs to go with a dealer and the factory used warranty vs. a wholesaler.

3rd party warranties can be a total scam, or they can be legit, completely depends on the company.

Warranty Direct is one example of a good one that has been around for a long time, I have personal and second hand experience with them and I'd trust them. They don't stay in biz for a long time if they cause problems, not in today's Internet world. (I personally wouldn't pay for a factory OR aftermarket warranty on an '07 E350, I'd save the money and take my chances).

As to how it costs to go with wholesale v. your local dealer, I gave you the current average wholesale sales prices. A normal "wholesale" retailer is going to try to make at least $1K on the car. I don't know what your local dealer is asking/selling for, you can find that out by calling them.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by IROC

This is about what the local dealership is selling them for...

That is very cheap for dealerships to be selling for, but I totally believe it. They are basically selling at wholesale.

I used to own a high line independent dealership (BMW, MB, Ferrari, Porsche mainly). The super thin margins is why I don't any more.

[kaisen]

Starmark adds one year to the remaining warranty and covers up to 100K miles. So if you buy a used 2008 with 25K miles, you have three years and 75K miles left. If you drive 25K miles per year, it's good coverage. If not, well, you got an extra year. Not many people would pay $1000-2000 for a one year warranty. YMMV

McLovin is quoting the 'average' Manheim Market Report (MMR) values. There are many more 2008's than 2007's out there right now. Add $2000 and subtract 10K miles for the newer year.

The thing about averages is that you can find deals well under average, or you can pay way over average. Colors, miles, equipment, condition, geography, the weather that day, etc all play a part. Auctions aren't always logical. Dealers aren't always the brightest bulbs.

Still, if IROC Mike can buy a 2007 with 35K for $24-25K from his local Mercedes dealer, he should take them up on it. Unless it is the wrong color, wrong equipment, wrong condition car that you can buy for $20K at auction (yes, the spread can be that big). McLovin can verify.

E

[IROC]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Still, if IROC Mike can buy a 2007 with 35K for $24-25K from his local Mercedes dealer, he should take them up on it. Unless it is the wrong color, wrong equipment, wrong condition car that you can buy for $20K at auction (yes, the spread can be that big). McLovin can verify.

I checked their website after making my post and they have a 2007 for about $27k but it's got 50k miles on it. The rest (a mix of 2007s and 2008s) were low-to-mid thirties. I think they (the dealer) are advertising on the local craigslist for lower prices than what they list on their official website, though (as I have been watching...).