Anyone here built a 1911?

[MotoSook]

I'm thinking of building one.

Probably a Commander using parts from Fusion, slide and frame.

Anyone have experience with Fusion?

General building tips?

[Steve F]

I built one on an Essex frame and a Utica slide. It was lots of fun to work on getting the fit between them just right. There are several books out that help but I can't recall the names of just now. I will check when I get home. I"think" one author was Day.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Bob Serva at Fusion is top notch. He will take care of you.

As for building tips, join M1911.org and/or 1911forums.com. Some very talented smiths hang out there.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Soukus

I'm thinking of building one.

Probably a Commander using parts from Fusion, slide and frame.

Anyone have experience with Fusion?

General building tips?

I've heavily modified 3 of them.

Why not just buy a Springfield and modify it to your needs?

[HHI944]

I helped a friend build an ed brown kit. It was a blast, but lots of trial and error getting the trigger right. Don't be afraid to tear it down after firing 2 magazines to tinker, but don't go nuts on the hammer hooks, they're the easiest thing to royally screw up.

[MotoSook]

Snipe: already have a SA, but I don't want to tinker with it. I'd rather build one from scratch...more fun than just replacing parts


Blue: I've already contacted Bob Serva. I'm going to get one of his full dust cover frame, cut to match a slab side slide. It should be fun...

I don't want to pay $2G+ for a Les Baer Commanche Monolith, but I'd like to build something like it....building it would be a heck of a learning experience.

Here's the LB I'm talking about ('cept the Fusion trigger guard is square):



Someone posted this on the other 1911 thread....and it's what inspired me to want to build..

YouTube - the BEST colt .45 1911 animation collection ( with labeled parts )

[RPKESQ]

I have buildt several dozen at least. A simple design with simple requirements makes them an easy project. I would suggest obtaining several designs and makes of ejectors, extractors, hammers, sears and triggers. This allows you to experiment, test and perform analysis on how and why these parts interact with each other. One of the biggest advantages of the 1911 in the US is the availability of parts, so that this experimentation and learning is cheap.

Unless you have a fair amount of gunsmith experience with semiauto firearms always remember to test fire your new build (or any change of the above parts) by first loading one round in the chamber and a dummy in the magazine. If this works, then increase to 2 live rounds, one in the chamber and one in the magazine. If this works, increase the test firing by an additional round until you have a full load. Then run through at least 50 rounds before making any changes or declaring the pistol safe to use.

I have twice seen people hurt or killed with pistols going full auto after being tuned or modified. I even test new semiauto firearms this way.

[Tim Hancock]

I assume you are talking about putting one together from parts.... not building one from blocks metal right? I have heard of guys machining there own AR lowers, but the cost once buying a chunk of 7075 aluminum would not make it worthwhile other than the satisfaction of being able to say you truly built it yourself. I have considered building a gun myself just for the challenge, but I would have no way to make rifled barrels and other parts would need specialized heat treating which I would not want to risk making a mistake on.

[MotoSook]

Tim,

I shouldn't have said "from scratch." I plan to assemble from parts. The fitment would be the challenge...and getting all the parts to work safely as RPK posted.

I'm not particularly looking to save money (well, over the $2K for the Les Baer for sure), but rather to build something I want (my spec based on a 1911 design) and making it work reliably and safely.

I honestly don't see this as that big of a mechanical challenge (say compared to a 911 engine). Of course I understand the danger, but if I'm not able to assemble a 1911 I might as well rip up my ME degree

I've been researching the net for building tips, but first hand experience from some of you guys is valuable.

[m21sniper]

I very much like the full length dust cover.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Soukus

I honestly don't see this as that big of a mechanical challenge (say compared to a 911 engine). Of course I understand the danger, but if I'm not able to assemble a 1911 I might as well rip up my ME degree

Actually building a gun is a much more delicate and intricate job that often requires much filing, polishing and buffing to get the fit just right.

When you build an engine, unless you're doing the machine work yourself, there's none of that.

Not saying you cannot do it, but i think going into it thinking it will be easy is a mistake. I would view it more as an enjoyable challenge.

[Tim Hancock]

I am sure you won't have any problems that you won't be able to solve and I have never assembled a 1911 from parts, but no doubt you will want to be sure you stick with common parts/spring combinations initially. I have farted around with my Glock .22 conversion kit and was able to induce doubles when I did some machining (removed about .020") on my striker while trying to make the trigger feel exactly as the gun does with the 9mm slide on it. I ended up having to put some material back on then with my tig welder then remachine it with only .010 removed. It all works fine now, but I obviously had gone a tad too far in my quest for a "better" trigger. The gun had worked fine with rapid fire, but when bench rested with a slow trigger reset motion it went off...... Point is, just be careful as Frenchy noted!!!!

[MotoSook]

[QUOTE=m21sniper;5138873]requires much filing, polishing and buffing to get the fit just right.QUOTE]

In other words, "Zen moments in the garage." I love those...hours gone and the wife wonders where I've been.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

I have buildt several dozen at least. A simple design with simple requirements makes them an easy project. I would suggest obtaining several designs and makes of ejectors, extractors, hammers, sears and triggers. This allows you to experiment, test and perform analysis on how and why these parts interact with each other. One of the biggest advantages of the 1911 in the US is the availability of parts, so that this experimentation and learning is cheap.

Unless you have a fair amount of gunsmith experience with semiauto firearms always remember to test fire your new build (or any change of the above parts) by first loading one round in the chamber and a dummy in the magazine. If this works, then increase to 2 live rounds, one in the chamber and one in the magazine. If this works, increase the test firing by an additional round until you have a full load. Then run through at least 50 rounds before making any changes or declaring the pistol safe to use.

I have twice seen people hurt or killed with pistols going full auto after being tuned or modified. I even test new semiauto firearms this way.

so this is HOW MONTE DIED! was wondering back on new years if ya went to the COSTUME BALL dressed as MONTE or wearing TRACK SHOES with a french military uniform on(pick any).

yep yer statement to mix and match and do analysis of how parts interchange and werk is about on par with either suicide or ONE HELL OF A LAW SUIT. like sued into the stone age when the prosecuting attorney looks at a heavily modified .45 built by a NON gunsmith that was used in a homicide, be it justifiable or non justifiable. jury will hear GUN NUT and then its ALL DOWNHILL!


and DONT THINK for an instant that isnt standard ops anywhere. even dumass attorneys can figure that one out.

basically playing mix and match, is your building a RACE GUN. and anyjuan with racegun experience will tell you they are very(DID I SAY VERY PRONE) prone to FTF and FTE and a host of other problems.............sometimes deadly for the owner or bystanders(called AD's-accidental discharges). unless you REALLY REALLY KNOW what the hell you are doing. and yes i have an aerospace tooling/machine background(like all my life). i have machined more .45 frames/slides, here than anyjuan unless you own a damn .45 machine shop. name the material,part, we have programmed and machined them.


my suggestion but then WTF do i know, i'm sure frog boy has all the X,Y,Z axis and MOT's memorized for a .45. thats MOT- method of tooling, would be to take this VERY CAREFULLY with a QUALIFIED GUNSMITH as YOUR SPIRITUAL GURU AND MENTOR! cuz yer throwing the dice here "mixing matching parts" with different tolerances.

and my SPIRITUAL GURU AND MENTOR is "THE GUNSMITH" aka NELSON FORD. but then WTF does he know? he only builds them for us lil people and lil people agencies like FBI,DEA,CIA,U.S.MARSHALLS ,U.S. JUSTICE DEPT.,AZDPS,PHX PD,MCSO,ICE,U.S. MILITARY(all branches) and on and on and on. and he shoots with "mr.springfield" aka rob leatham. and FYI rob/nelson use ROBAR for all their NP3 on weapons they build.


the (2) TWO/DOS/ZWEI/DU guns that KILL PEOPLE more than ANY OTHER GUNS ARE:

.22's(their cute)

1911 .45's!


and the 1911 .45 design is ONE OF THE MOST SAFEST DESIGNS EVER BUILT...........until either an IDIOT/MORON attempts to use it...............


or somebody goes and FEEKS IT ALL UP by playing "gunsmith" when they AINT A FEEKING "GUNSMITH"!


its your life savings, your life or others, and possibly your life in prison!


seen wayyy TOO DAMN MANY COME APART OVER MY LIFE AND IT IS UGLY!


and the JUAN THANG MFGS> DONT SHOW YOU................is how many come apart because of FOOLS BUILDING THEM! we saw more than i can count sent back because "somejuan" modified them, NOT because of mfg's ERROR!


if yer gonna "mix and match" parts and play frenchy roulette, PM me and i will give you my address so ya can name me in your WILL!


get somebody COMPETENT that can MENTOR you that DOESNT MIX AND MATCH PARTS!

[MotoSook]

Hey Uno, tell your gunsmith to tell his shooting buddy (TGO ) that Springfield makes some crappy sheet unless you're TGO or willing to write a big check to the Custom Shop. I'm very disappointed with my SA. Not one round down the tube, and already have a call tag from the factory for some crap quality that should have never left the factory. But then some Brazilian factory monkey doesn't give a crap about what happens here... The more time I spend with this thing, the more I think it was a big mi$take to buy it. Could be I expect more than the average spoon collector...hence one reason why I'd like to build one.

I suggested to the factory that I should put some rounds down the tube before send it back to determine if there are any other flaws. Their response, "yes, great idea." Why didn't they think of that.

Point being, not even a factory spoon is perfect. How many times have guys gone on the forums beetching about a factory spoon malfunctioning? We'd probably be rich if we all got a dollar for every new factory spoon that needed work.

As I always say, "gunsmiths are like mechanics, few great ones...but lots of bad ones." Some of the ones I've run into I wouldn't trust to clean my spoons. Like Porsche engines, there's some myth about gunsmithing that causes people to run away. I'll agree that for most it's probaby a good idea to leave it to the pros. If one can't fully understand and appreciate the workings of a mechanical assembly...do not touch. Some just can't appreciate the potential for danger be it spoons or anything else. Those are the ones that cause the myth to grow.

As for a built spoon used in a homicide...does it matter what the spoon is after someone's been blown away by it?

BTW as long as you're dropping names-- my spiritual guru and mentor...former president of CZ/Dan Wesson...he might lead me down the right path and send me good parts that should work pretty well

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Soukus

In other words, "Zen moments in the garage." I love those...hours gone and the wife wonders where I've been.

Yep, that's exactly what i mean. I have filed and polished at my firearms for many years. Never made one totally from component parts before, but all of them get a good going over by me.

I polished the feed ramp, ejection port/barrel hood, sear, firing pin shoulder and grip screws on my P7. The trigger is orgasmically good.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

so this is HOW MONTE DIED! was wondering back on new years if ya went to the COSTUME BALL dressed as MONTE or wearing TRACK SHOES with a french military uniform on(pick any).

yep yer statement to mix and match and do analysis of how parts interchange and werk is about on par with either suicide or ONE HELL OF A LAW SUIT. like sued into the stone age when the prosecuting attorney looks at a heavily modified .45 built by a NON gunsmith that was used in a homicide, be it justifiable or non justifiable. jury will hear GUN NUT and then its ALL DOWNHILL!


and DONT THINK for an instant that isnt standard ops anywhere. even dumass attorneys can figure that one out.

basically playing mix and match, is your building a RACE GUN. and anyjuan with racegun experience will tell you they are very(DID I SAY VERY PRONE) prone to FTF and FTE and a host of other problems.............sometimes deadly for the owner or bystanders(called AD's-accidental discharges). unless you REALLY REALLY KNOW what the hell you are doing. and yes i have an aerospace tooling/machine background(like all my life). i have machined more .45 frames/slides, here than anyjuan unless you own a damn .45 machine shop. name the material,part, we have programmed and machined them.


my suggestion but then WTF do i know, i'm sure frog boy has all the X,Y,Z axis and MOT's memorized for a .45. thats MOT- method of tooling, would be to take this VERY CAREFULLY with a QUALIFIED GUNSMITH as YOUR SPIRITUAL GURU AND MENTOR! cuz yer throwing the dice here "mixing matching parts" with different tolerances.

and my SPIRITUAL GURU AND MENTOR is "THE GUNSMITH" aka NELSON FORD. but then WTF does he know? he only builds them for us lil people and lil people agencies like FBI,DEA,CIA,U.S.MARSHALLS ,U.S. JUSTICE DEPT.,AZDPS,PHX PD,MCSO,ICE,U.S. MILITARY(all branches) and on and on and on. and he shoots with "mr.springfield" aka rob leatham. and FYI rob/nelson use ROBAR for all their NP3 on weapons they build.


the (2) TWO/DOS/ZWEI/DU guns that KILL PEOPLE more than ANY OTHER GUNS ARE:

.22's(their cute)

1911 .45's!


and the 1911 .45 design is ONE OF THE MOST SAFEST DESIGNS EVER BUILT...........until either an IDIOT/MORON attempts to use it...............


or somebody goes and FEEKS IT ALL UP by playing "gunsmith" when they AINT A FEEKING "GUNSMITH"!


its your life savings, your life or others, and possibly your life in prison!


seen wayyy TOO DAMN MANY COME APART OVER MY LIFE AND IT IS UGLY!


and the JUAN THANG MFGS> DONT SHOW YOU................is how many come apart because of FOOLS BUILDING THEM! we saw more than i can count sent back because "somejuan" modified them, NOT because of mfg's ERROR!


if yer gonna "mix and match" parts and play frenchy roulette, PM me and i will give you my address so ya can name me in your WILL!


get somebody COMPETENT that can MENTOR you that DOESNT MIX AND MATCH PARTS!

What a nitwit you are.

The OP stated he wanted a learning experience. Never did he state he was building a gun for self defense. So no legal issue would exist.

And if your experience is that mixing and matching parts is the cause of numerous failures then that just highlights your lack of gunsmithing abilities or knowledge. Most factories 1911's are built with parts from different manufactures, regardless of whose name is stamped on them. It is the competent fitting of those parts that result in a properly safe and functioning firearm. Nobody was saying just throw those parts together.

But as always, you are quick to illustrate your lack of knowledge and understanding of the issue at hand. Congratulations on confirming your idiocy yet again.

[MotoSook]

I happened to find a .40 Commander that Bob built for a guy. This is essentially what I'm after in .45.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by Soukus

Hey Uno, tell your gunsmith to tell his shooting buddy (TGO ) that Springfield makes some crappy sheet unless you're TGO or willing to write a big check to the Custom Shop. I'm very disappointed with my SA. Not one round down the tube, and already have a call tag from the factory for some crap quality that should have never left the factory. But then some Brazilian factory monkey doesn't give a crap about what happens here... The more time I spend with this thing, the more I think it was a big mi$take to buy it.

I suggested to the factory that I should put some rounds down the tube before send it back to determine if there are any other flaws. Their response, "yes, good idea." Why didn't they think of that.

Point being, not even a factory spoon is perfect. How many times have guys gone on the forums beetching about a factory spoon malfunctioning? We'd probably be rich if we all got a dollar for every new factory spoon that needed work.

As I always say, "gunsmiths are like mechanics, few good ones...but lots of bad ones." Some of the ones I've run into I wouldn't trust to clean my spoons. Like Porsche engines, there's some myth about gunsmithing that causes people to run away. I'll agree that for most it's probaby a good idea to leave it to the pros. If one can't fully understand and appreciate the workings of a mechanical assembly...do not touch. Some just can't appreciate the potential for danger be it spoons or anything else. Those are the ones that cause the myth to grow.

As for a built spoon used in a homicide...does it matter what the spoon is after someone's been blown away by it?

BTW as long as you're dropping names-- my spiritual guru and mentor...former president of CZ/Dan Wesson...he might lead me down the right path

a few examples be it ferd chebbie porsche springfield kimber ed brown ruger robar.


you have GOOD DAYS MFG. and you have AVERAGE DAYS and you have BAD DAYS!


now your porsche probably was a GOOD DAY!


my 11/86 mfg'd sold as 1987 porsche had a BAD DAY............yep a coupla crap valve guides from a vendor mfg. them. not porsche.........A VENDOR!


now if anyjuan thinks all their guns(name the mfg/type) is ALL MADE IN HOUSE BY LIL ELVES...............well you have bean hitting the CRACK PIPE wayyy too much.


theres this thang called ISO 9001. its a mfg. standard. its a GOOD THANG cuz everypart is followed by paper and every process is documented. ie. we can turn 100 barrels on the cnc lathe and around 101-120 are tolerances are going BYE BYE because of tooling wear. so we stop at 100 cuz WE KNOW up to 100 barrels they are all with in tolerance whatever the tolerance plus or minus something.


so we have 100 barrels that are uber perfect. well............maybe its friday and the machinist(monkley button pusher) is hung over and decides not to chaNGE TOOLING AFTER 100 BARRELS and the 101 or 120 barrel slip on thru. well that should be schecked(checked) by QC. well its now monday and everyjuan is hungover and it slips thru.

then after pistole is built it gets proof fired. since they proof fire ALOT, they buy the cheapest quanity/quality of ammo they can get. because they shoot alot and thats an obvious cost savings.


now that ammo could be low grade/rem/winchester 230 gr FMJ. and as anyjuan knows that will just about always feed and eject. they proof fire, take picture of shell casing for federal file, and then ship to gunshop. and then you buy it.


and then you take directly to range/dezert and start slamming beers and shooting cans(its the american way and its good-well within reason after an 18pak i will put a disclaimer on that).


you have just commited the first sin of any firearm. and por qui is dat?????


you failed to take apart veapon and liberally lubricated and give it TLC that it deserves.


your next failure is you ran out in haste with the baddest ass .45 JHP's that man can buy possibly. or ya bought cheapass crap bunga bunga ammo from liberia slightly rusted with free crack pipe offer inside.


now you have entered the "WTF ZONE" because suddenly you get FTF or FTE!


well its obvious that the rounds you have dont work. but if you were smart LAK US...........you would have grabbed federal FMJ and FEDERAL JHP and done a test. or remington or hornaday. use both FMJ and JHP and test to see which FLAVOOOOR works for 200 rds right then right now not monyana.


you have now excercised it and the action is dirty but HAPPY cuz all tolerances have rubbed themselves into orgazmic DEE-LITE and they do the mazzola party against juan another. and all is GOOD..............most times.


if ya try 3 flavors of quality ammo and still have FTF and FTE then its time to meet a GOOD GUNSMITH and do not mention CHEAP in the equation cuz he will kick yer ass as well as myself. cuz you are ONLY relying on this veapon for YOUR LIFE or OTHERS so dis aint da place to be a CHEAP ASS!


sending it back to the factory cuz of the above will get you a documented sheet from factory finding NOTHING WRONG(CYA LEGAL BEAGLES) because they used their PROOF AMMO!


so the gunsmith will steer you in correct direction and 99% of the time its a lil diamond stone or a die grinder on the ramp and problem cured.


hell even wheel guns have hic-cups with timing because of tolerances kept.


and even if ya spend GA-ZIGGA BUCKS on a mega wunder .45 you will have the same problems.


i have dealt with springfield and their customer service is top knotch muy bueno on their M1-A's or .45s or any of their products. and its a LIFETIME WARRANTY> as well as their CUSTOM SHOP which i have dealt with now also.



once again for those that dont listen:


buy veapon,take home take apart and LUBE IT!

buy 3 QUALITY FLA-VOOOORS of rounds JHP and FMJ

buy cans of beverages or milk jugs.


got to where ya shoot and SHOOT 200RDS! and dont stop until done. if all ok then take home take apart clean lak a mofo and then BE HOPI(happy).


if no workey and FTF or FTE............go to QUALIFIED KNOWS HIS POO .45 gunsmith.


P.S.S. ANY GUN MODIFIED AND CONSTRUED AS SUCH BY COURT/JUDGE/JURY/PROSECUTING ATTORNEY...................WILL MAKE YOU A GUN NUT! mark MY DAMN WORDS ON THAT AND ITS ETCHED IN FEEKING GRANITE!



race guns go to range.


polished /honed/dialed in veapons ARE FOR CARRY!

CARRY WHATEVER ROUNDS YOUR STATE POLICE CARRY! here its federal hydrashocks.

[m21sniper]

My Springfield was top notch quality for a production weapon. It saddens me to hear the newer ones aren't as good.