Anyone here built a 1911?

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

What a nitwit you are.

The OP stated he wanted a learning experience. Never did he state he was building a gun for self defense. So no legal issue would exist.

And if your experience is that mixing and matching parts is the cause of numerous failures then that just highlights your lack of gunsmithing abilities or knowledge. Most factories 1911's are built with parts from different manufactures, regardless of whose name is stamped on them. It is the competent fitting of those parts that result in a properly safe and functioning firearm. Nobody was saying just throw those parts together.

But as always, you are quick to illustrate your lack of knowledge and understanding of the issue at hand. Congratulations on confirming your idiocy yet again.

frog boy i have bean involved with the mfg of .45s from nothing but a hunk of steel/alloy to the finished product LONGER THAN YOU HAVE SHOT! and i have LITERALLY HAD MY TOOLING ON 100's of THOUSANDS of .45's!


you dont know the damn difference btwn a CNMG 432 nor X,Y,Z axis!


BLOW IT OUT YER DONKEY !

[m21sniper]

Do we really need conflict in this thread guys?

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

My Springfield was top notch quality for a production weapon. It saddens me to hear the newer ones aren't as good.

most of you havent a clue what goes on in an actual mfg atmosphere, not cuz yer stoopid, but because it is difficult to get into just about all mfg facilitys. name the product. why industrial espionage. i had to sign more documents that i would not use divulge designs/blueprints/MOT(method of tooling) etc.


1st problemo. PA(purch agent) buys metal today from pennsylvania, next week because of savings he buys from california, next month he buys from japan. now if its an ISO 9001 or better facility paper follows rockwell hardness............usually but not always. so rockwell hardness changes are BAD JUJU for machining part, which changes ALOT!

next heat treating or plating can be different each day or week or month.


tooling can change in a heart beat because of costs.


coolant DOES GO RANCID! and must be changed be it oil or water soluable.


monkey boy machinist could be good/bad/average


program can be changed and ON AND ON AND ON!


and SPEEDS AND FEEDS CAN CHANGE because of tooling/rockwell blah blah.


more variables than you can imagine and ENOUGH to make ya want to cut yer wrists because TOOLING IS ALWAYS BLAMED FIRST FOR A CRASH OR BAD PARTS! ask me how i know?????



so when ya see all the variables and live with them work with them sleep with them its a damn wonder anything comes out exactly as per tolerance allowed on blueprint. and anyjuan with an iota of machine shop 101 will attest to this.


remember gun mfg liability is HUGE! POO does happen on mfg floors and thats why they call them RECALLS which the NRA does a damn good job of notifying people about as well as mfg's.


(1) job we did stainless steel .45 frames at ruger in prescott here for a seal team contract. the tolerances were killing us. they beat us to death. we finally overcame all of the problems with mfg. after signing documents that we would not divilge anything about these, and sent them back to SANDVICK in fairlawn , new jersey and had our gurus run them on our CNC drilling/milling them and finally got the MOT down perfect and tooling life was not compromised. thereby ruger could make a profit, tooling changes were not every 15min, and we made lots of parts for them.


deal with mfg MIL SPECS all yer life and it can KILL YOU!



now heres another lil tidbit of knowledge frog boy wont give you...............



your USGI issued lowest bid .45 or 9mm..............is SET UP LOOSE. ie. tolerances are LOOSE! why? just rattle a .45 back and forth and if you hear/feel any noise movement..............its probably a GI issue. WHY? cuz of dirt and crap getting in action and lack of field cleaning while getting SHOT AT! ie. it will shoot with mud and crap and sand and blood and guts and french fries and puke ALL OVER IT!



now try a TIGHT ASSED TOLERANCE RACE GUN with "FRENCHYS MIX AND MATCH PARTS" with blood and guts and sand and puke and mud and FRENCH FRIES all over it and WATCH IT JAM SO FAST IT WILL MAKE YER HEAD SPIN! and you will be DEAD!



frenchy YOU are so out of yer league on this topic ITS FREEKING PATHETIC!


go back to reading how monte did NOT win the war quickly. and leave gun mfg. to those of us who have DONE IT for YEARS! I MEAN FREEKING ALL OF MY ADULT LIFE since i was freeking 21!


"MIX AND MATCH PARTS" another reason french guns always land in the mud and dirt!


and for an added KICK TO FRENCHYS CROISSANTS..................i got my name on parts that are in space(NASA), ICBM missile nose cones, F-117 wing flap actuators, numerous F-18/15/ parts, nuke bomb triggers at project mercury(had secret clearance and visited all (3) horizontal test shot bores,white sands,los alamos(machined RADIATED PARTS),sandia labs, YPG yuma proving grounds, and more hot rotating military and commercial turbine parts than i care to remember let alone literally UMPTEEN MILLIONS of TRW AIRBAG TRIGGERS! and SCADS of military and commercial weapons mfgs. over the years let alone surgical machined parts.


yep all of them "MIXED AND MATCHED" parts, WHAT A JOKE!

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

most of you havent a clue what goes on in an actual mfg atmosphere, not cuz yer stoopid, but because it is difficult to get into just about all mfg facilitys. name the product. why industrial espionage. i had to sign more documents that i would not use divulge designs/blueprints/MOT(method of tooling) etc.


1st problemo. PA(purch agent) buys metal today from pennsylvania, next week because of savings he buys from california, next month he buys from japan. now if its an ISO 9001 or better facility paper follows rockwell hardness............usually but not always. so rockwell hardness changes are BAD JUJU for machining part, which changes ALOT!

next heat treating or plating can be different each day or week or month.


tooling can change in a heart beat because of costs.


coolant DOES GO RANCID! and must be changed be it oil or water soluable.


monkey boy machinist could be good/bad/average


program can be changed and ON AND ON AND ON!


and SPEEDS AND FEEDS CAN CHANGE because of tooling/rockwell blah blah.


more variables than you can imagine and ENOUGH to make ya want to cut yer wrists because TOOLING IS ALWAYS BLAMED FIRST FOR A CRASH OR BAD PARTS! ask me how i know?????



so when ya see all the variables and live with them work with them sleep with them its a damn wonder anything comes out exactly as per tolerance allowed on blueprint. and anyjuan with an iota of machine shop 101 will attest to this.


remember gun mfg liability is HUGE! POO does happen on mfg floors and thats why they call them RECALLS which the NRA does a damn good job of notifying people about as well as mfg's.


(1) job we did stainless steel .45 frames at ruger in prescott here for a seal team contract. the tolerances were killing us. they beat us to death. we finally overcame all of the problems with mfg. after signing documents that we would not divilge anything about these, and sent them back to SANDVICK in fairlawn , new jersey and had our gurus run them on our CNC drilling/milling them and finally got the MOT down perfect and tooling life was not compromised. thereby ruger could make a profit, tooling changes were not every 15min, and we made lots of parts for them.


deal with mfg MIL SPECS all yer life and it can KILL YOU!



now heres another lil tidbit of knowledge frog boy wont give you...............



your USGI issued lowest bid .45 or 9mm..............is SET UP LOOSE. ie. tolerances are LOOSE! why? just rattle a .45 back and forth and if you hear/feel any noise movement..............its probably a GI issue. WHY? cuz of dirt and crap getting in action and lack of field cleaning while getting SHOT AT! ie. it will shoot with mud and crap and sand and blood and guts and french fries and puke ALL OVER IT!



now try a TIGHT ASSED TOLERANCE RACE GUN with "FRENCHYS MIX AND MATCH PARTS" with blood and guts and sand and puke and mud all over it and WATCH IT JAM SO FAST IT WILL MAKE YER HEAD SPIN! and you will be DEAD!



frenchy YOU are so out of yer league on this topic ITS FREEKING PATHETIC!


go back to reading how monte did NOT win the war quickly. and leave gun mfg. to those of us who have DONE IT for YEARS! I MEAN FREEKING ALL OF MY ADULT LIFE since i was freeking 21!


"MIX AND MATCH PARTS" another reason french guns always land in the mud and dirt!

What you are rambling on about is manufacturing. Not gunsmithing. So you are out of your league here by several orders of magnitude. My gunsmithing knowledge and skill was good enough for me to work for Holland & Holland, Rigby, Boss, Purdey and Fabri. I have over 20 years y hand gunmaking and gunsmithing experience in the most demanding factories in the world.

Large batch production machining is hardly a gunsmithing skill, it is a manufacturing skill. Again your lack of basic knowledge is exposed.

One more time, slowly just for you, no one suggested mixing parts without proper fitting and testing, except you.

No one suggested the firearm created would be a defensive weapon, except you (and even if it was used as such, few examples of the shooter being convicted because it was modified are in the legal records, this is mostly a urban myth).

In short, you have jumped into a nice thread and spread your pernicious dribble around in a feeble attempt to impress. Your lack of a viable knowledge base ensures that you will have your ass handed to you every time. Don't you ever get sick and tired of being wrong?

[James Brown]

Soukus, I built (or rebuilt) several 1911's using Kimber and/or Wilson parts. They have everything you need and have great catalogs. I did mine in stainless steel so after I was done, all it needed was a quick glass beed blasting for the finish, they both work great and are still going strong.

[MotoSook]

Thanks James. I'll probably use several Wilson parts. They seem to be heavily favored especially when some other parts don't work out.


As for finish, I'm leaning towards a blue finish. I like the way well worn (but cared for) "blue" pistols look.

[m21sniper]

I've always liked Les Bauer parts.

[MotoSook]

Nice chamfered SS bushing by Fusion. I've spec'd it for my parts kit.

[Shuie]

Liebenburg/Browning Hi-Power cut....nice touch on a full house 1911.

Soukus, where are you located? I've tooled around on a few 1911's, but this is really a skilled trade. I'd get a 1911 guy close by to show me the ropes if I wanted to build something for myself. Honestly, I'd probably get on a plane and take a trip to Issaquah, WA and then ask one of our fellow forumites to show me how to build a 1911 if I ever had the urge.

[MotoSook]

Shuie: I'm in the Midwest. A bit far from WA.

Anyone in Washington know this guy? He's got some nice examples of his work on the website. I'm debating whether I want the lightening holes in the slide. I'm eventually going to have the frame and slide Ion Bond DLC coated in black and all the "accent" pieces will be polished stainless. The stainless barrel would be visible through the holes.

JPL Precision - Hot Rod Handguns Gallery

[MotoSook]

Here's an Ion Bonded pistol with polished stainless accent pieces.

[m21sniper]

Man i wish i had pix of my two tone stainless steel Springfield Champion. It was stainless frame/high polish blue slide with white lettering and stainless accents.

GORGEOUS...very similar to the look you're going for.

[ODDJOB UNO]

now understand if YOU build this, the learning curve wil be very high, the probability of FTF and FTE will be HIGH, and there will be no warranties expressed implied from anyjuan. and ya better have a machine shop to back ya.


why do i bother with this? because i have seen time after time and so has nelson, ford on .45's "the TINKERER" as we have all seen countless times with other mfg items.

nelsons normal day includes righting the wrongs of the "TINKERERS". now in my book and anyjuan else who has bean around firearms the first thing ya need to be a gunsmith is a GUNSMITH DEGREE. next ya better get a fair amount of experience on a mill and a lathe. and i dont mean drilling a 3/8 hole by "wallering " and a lil more experience than "hawging" out some alum.


now the "worlds most interesting man" on here mentioned that "he only loads one round at a time and then increases it to 2 then 3 then 4 rds so they dont go full auto" WTF IS THAT ALL ABOUT?????????? now thats a closet "TINKERER" and for that to occur...............well something is just DAMN WRONG on those builds.


my suggestion(butt WTF do i know???) instead of salivating over the brownells catalog and coming up with a host of untested goodie parts and becoming a "TINKERER"....................


is to buy a PROVEN model with PROVEN PARTS whatever yer wallet can afford and sit down with a real live GUNSMITH that KNOWS WHAT THE HELLS HES DOING for your vision of the "perfect .45", because yer about to embark on a very very long journey down a very bad road and its gonna get wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

SPENDY before YOU achieve yer GOAL of an accurate RELIABLE .45.


now think about this: YOU are redesigning a 1911 proven firearm with 2010 items.


now if YOU were a GUNSMITH with a MACHINING BACKGROUND and MACHINE TOOLS with a BETTER MOUSETRAP DESIGN...................why are YOU NOT SELLING THIS BRILLIANT CONCEPT to REAL FIREARM MFGS??????


now the SAFEST .45 EVER BUILT...........the HK USP .45. has a DECOCKER which all guns should have in some form or another because thats where AD's occur majority of the time.


want the baddest ass HK .45? go to GREY GUNS and check out his work.


HK's concept on the USP was to make a SAFER .45 design which they have carried thru all the calibers with the USP and USPC calibers. when ya think about it, carrying a .45 locked and cocked,hammer back,safety up,maybe a strap keeping hammer from falling on firing pin, its NOT the "perfect design" its acceptable, it does work with practice, but it still leaves alot of room for error and time and time and time again people either shoot their foot or right down thru the knee grabbing them out of holsters playing "QWEEKS DRAW MCGRAW".


HK started the concept with their HK P9S design. once again a decocker. but their design entailed dropping lever on side of trigger, and THEN PULLING THE TRIGGER to decock. if done in the wrong sequence..........KABOOM! this was not met with good applause because as always STOOPID PEOPLE!


next attempt at this decocker design was on the USP and on other mfgs like beretta. this has caught on as the "HAPPY PLACE" for gun people because if ya have round in chamber and yer ready to fire, and decide not to fire for whatever reason, you can safely DECOCK veapon unlike grabbing the grips front/rear on a 1911 design, pulling the trigger and riding the hammer back down safely. ALWAYS A TREAT I ASSURE YOU! and ya better have yer barrel pointed in safe direction each and everytime.


so your dealing with a complicated design. are you gonna "race this gun"? or are you gonna daily carry? are ya gonna bet yer life on it?


we have seen countless multi mega buck 1911's take a GIANT CRAP and a lil old cheap ass USGI mil spec parkerized model spin circles around the "UBER TINKERERS" pistol and GO BANG EVERYTIME!


have fun and send pics. we LOVE PICS!

[MotoSook]

UNO. Give it up man. Just because you've been conditioned by your smith to think he's God as you write him a big check doesn't mean it's the only way. I seem to recall your posts on the "good bolt action" thread as if there was no way in hell one could own a good shooting rifle for less than a couple of grand and none that wasn't blessed by some iconic smith. It's just not true.

A 1911 is an extremely simple design and the parts market is full of high quality parts. I don't expect this to cost me anymore than what I spent on my last factory pistol. I've added up the parts cost using premium parts that I like and it's not going to cost me the fortune you think it will.

There are plenty of successful builds out there and plenty of failed builds, but I think we can group the builders into two groups of logical and mechanical aptitude. It's not due to a lack of parts selection, flawed design or lack of gunsmith degree (can't you get those online nowadays?)

[MotoSook]

I hate to go OT, but your comments about manufacturing are just not entirely true. I have worked as a test engineer in a manufcturing environment that was posted full of ISO certificates and the floors packed with multi-million dollar machines.

These places are not the pinnacle of great manufacturing because of ISO. ISO is a joke for the most part and has more to do with paper work than the actual work being performed. The people making a living off ISO certs must laugh their arses off every night while sipping aged Scotch in their pricey homes.

There is more than one way to do things right, and it's not always that which one has been conditioned to believe.

[Tim Hancock]

Hey Souk,

Don't you just love it when someone trys to tell folks like you and I that we are incapable of some mechanical task. From homebuilt airplanes to homebuilt violins, to custom bike builds, to restoring Porsches, to rebuilding 911 engines, to DIY alignments, to converting R12 to 134, to tinkering with guns and etc etc. It is always fun to prove the skeptics wrong. Nothing better to me than the satisfaction of starting a new hobby and after careful research, being able to produce professional results in my home shop. Nothing motivates me more than having someone who spends a fortune on "custom" work tell me I am not capable of doing the same quality of work out of my home shop.

Can't wait to see your finished spoon.... I am 100% sure it will be first rate. What OddJob fails to comprehend is that while there are all kind of levels of mechanical competance out there. To make blanket statements about all who choose to do their own work is ridiculous. If all gifted tinkerers quit tinkering, advances in technology would cease to exist.

[MotoSook]

Yep. Great gadfly to my greater works

[Shuie]

Are you still in IL? Anywhere near Quincy? Give Dick Heinie a call and ask him if he can recommend a smith to help you out, or someone that you can bounce ideas off of as you go through the process. Heinie does not build 1911's anymore, but he might be willing to help you get through the process if you get stuck. There is also a lot of online help available to you on the 1911 tech forums. I'm not sure if the websites are still up or not, but Chris at BlindHog used to post a lot of in depth build details as well as a guy whose name I can't remember that built up a pair of Argentine Systemas.

[MotoSook]

Millers Custom (in central IL) is popular place for the localS. Bob is active on one of the forums I go to. Like a lot of good smiths, he is years behind and charges too much for me to justify for a finished product. I'm sure Bob Miller will answer questions as well as Bob Serva, who's providing the foundation for the piece.

Thanks for the tip on Heine.

Are you still in IL? Anywhere near Quincy? Give Dick Heinie a call and ask him if he can recommend a smith to help you out, or someone that you can bounce ideas off of as you go through the process. Heinie does not build 1911's anymore, but he might be willing to help you get through the process if you get stuck. There is also a lot of online help available to you on the 1911 tech forums. I'm not sure if the websites are still up or not, but Chris at BlindHog used to post a lot of in depth build details as well as a guy whose name I can't remember that built up a pair of Argentine Systemas.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Soukus

UNO. Give it up man. Just because you've been conditioned by your smith to think he's God as you write him a big check doesn't mean it's the only way. I seem to recall your posts on the "good bolt action" thread as if there was no way in hell one could own a good shooting rifle for less than a couple of grand and none that wasn't blessed by some iconic smith. It's just not true.

A 1911 is an extremely simple design and the parts market is full of high quality parts. I don't expect this to cost me anymore than what I spent on my last factory pistol. I've added up the parts cost using premium parts that I like and it's not going to cost me the fortune you think it will.

There are plenty of successful builds out there and plenty of failed builds, but I think we can group the builders into two groups of logical and mechanical aptitude. It's not due to a lack of parts selection, flawed design or lack of gunsmith degree (can't you get those online nowadays?)

Honestly compared to modern pistols a 1911 is a very complex design. Modern pistols tend to be much simpler....but that still doesn't mean you cannot build a 1911 yourself.

Getting the proper fit/engagement of the sear and trigger are the trickiest parts.