Sniper, Tim Hancock, Oddjob! Should I trade?

[HHI944]

I've run into a gent that wants to even trade his P7PSP with original box, manual, etc, 1k rounds fired and two magazines for my Series 80 Colt Combat Commander.
I'm really tempted, for various reasons including: Lower cost to shoot, I've never owned an H&K, Fixed barrel seems pretty neat.............

This would be for EDC

[greglepore]

Do you want a pistol or an investment? The answers vary...

[ODDJOB UNO]

hey man BOXERS OR BRIEFS how do you ROLL?


me i like them both. colts springfields HKs walthers , sigs,rugers,smith and vessons, ed brown,kimber etc.


if it fits..............you must buy it. if it doesnt fit move on.


now if ya buy the hk spend the money right away and either send it to grayguns or to HK and have them place their blessing on it and replace repair any faux pas. worth the money if yer gonna keep it.


i dont buy guns to sell. i buy them to keep them and shoot them and uberize them and shoot them some more.


i usually since i have the luxury of living in the spoon vortex go and shoot what i am interested in and then make up my mind if it is comfortable and ergonomic to me and my hand.


gun mags and writers can write all day how good something is and all of us can write all day how bad ass we are and how we can shoot fly turds from a 1000yds after drinking a case of beer!


well there have bean alot of spoons that looked really cool or TAC-TI-COOL that once i shot them i realized how uncomfortable they really were to me.


so if the guy lets ya shoot it. shoot a few rounds and see how it werks. HK models like this are no longer made, so i would be sure to get the basic parts backup if yer gonna keep it for the long haul.


fit is 99% of how well you will shoot it. the other 1% is holding the damn thing still and keeping BOTH eyes open!


go for it. and then buy another colt and then another hk and on and on this contagious infectious disease grows.

[m21sniper]

I would do it.

My PSP will out-shoot any 1911 i have ever fired. Great carry gun too. Very flat, and supremely reliable. I would have to say the PSP has a huge reliability edge over the typical 1911. The HK is much easier to field strip and clean too. One huge advantage of the PSP is one that some think is a disadvantage. It has a heel mag release. I cannot tell you how many times in the 15 years i've been carrying a pistol that a mag with a browning style mag release has popped out of the pistol because i hit the button while driving. That simply won't ever happen with a PSP.

I laid out the PSP's shortcomings (if you can call them that) in a thread last week, the wood grips thread i think it was. Fellow Pelican Tim Hancock is toiling over my PSP right now as we speak. I will soon likely have the only Heads up display/reflex sight equipped P7 on Earth.

This is the very first group i ever shot with my P7, it was shot with Cor Bon 115gr +P JHP ammo:

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

i dont buy guns to sell. i buy them to keep them and shoot them and uberize them and shoot them some more.

That's what i do, but i generally only have one of each genre at one time. I'm just a middle class sort of fella, can't afford all the toys you other lads got.

My last uber pistol was a completely custom hybrid S&W 5903frame/6906 upper that was completely decked out.



I had that for over 15 years, and traded it in on my P7. I'll have my P7 for at least that long. My P7 is well on the way to uberness, but it's not there yet. Still want to get it mag-na-ported and NP3'd after Tim gets done with it.

[HHI944]

Snipe, you mention reliability and what I've found in research is the exact opposite. I've seen a lot of whining about the gas piston jamming up after 400-500rds. I've put 1500+ through a 1911 in a day without a problem.
Does it really have enough muzzle flip to justify magnaporting?

How is this weapon going to hold up in a desert environment? It is pretty likely that it'll be in a nasty sandbox by years end.
How is the weapon for user servicablilty? One of the things I loved about the 1911 is the relative ease to diagnose and repair the few problems that might pop up.

[Rick Lee]

I don't think it's a good deal. You can find a nice P7PSP for $500ish. I think your Commander is probably worth more than that.

[m21sniper]

PSP's have a tremendous reputation for reliability. Seriously....

Tell me about the HK P7 - Glock Talk

That being said I honestly cannot think of any situation whereupon i would shoot over 200rds between cleanings, but the PSP is said to be able to fire thousands of rounds without a problem. It did excellent in the US Army field trials WRT reliability.

A lot of 1911's, especially bone stock 1911's, are not particularly reliable with aggressive hollowpoints, especially when they're dirty. The HK on the other hand has a nearly zero degree feed angle, a fluted chamber that flows gas around the spent cartridge to ease extraction, and simple blowback operation. All the gas system does is delay the slide, it is not a gas operated pistol, it is recoil operated. The tilting link 1911 is a more complex mechanism and as such is more prone to problems with dirt.

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I don't think it's a good deal. You can find a nice P7PSP for $500ish. I think your Commander is probably worth more than that.

Depends on the grade of the PSP. A grade C shooter is $500. A grade A gun is about a thousand bucks. He didn't specify, but it sounds like the finish is nice or he would have said "needs a finish." So it's probably a grade A, or at least a B. B's go for $700ish, so that's about a wash in value.

[Rick Lee]

I'm not debating which is a better shooter. I've owned both and both have their pluses and minuses. The last one I got from CDNN was when they were $100 more than they are now and mine looked new and unfired.

[HHI944]

I had a shop offer me 500 in trade for my commander (I was drooling over a Les Baer), so I figure they expect they could sell it for at least 800 (It's one of the more stuck up shops in the area).
Thanks for the opinion on the deal. That's a big factor also. I've never seen a PSP for sale in my area so I'm not sure what the market is on them.

[Rick Lee]

Where do you live and what's the finish on your Commander?

I rarely see P7's in shops either, but everyone knows CDNN has them all day long for $500 and usually in super condition. I don't know anyone who sells any kind of Commander for $500 all day long.

[m21sniper]

I have never heard of anyone complain about the reliability of a P7. Where did you get this info HHI944? Read the thread on glock talk, every poster, one after another, "very reliable." Along with laser like accuracy, it's really what the pistol is known for.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079511

Anyway, yes, i would give a huge nod to the P7 in reliability compared to a typical 'box stock' Colt 1911. The 1911's 2 piece feed ramp system has long since been replaced in virtually all modern tilting barrel automatics with an integral feed ramp.

[71T Targa]

Crazy, I went to glocktalk to see if there were any P7PSP's listed as there is a LOT of action in the firearm listings and there is a guy trying to trade his for a Colt Commander.
What are the odds???

[ODDJOB UNO]

someting to tink about with these older guns. unless production numbers were huge, they sold a ton to military or LEO agencies sooner than later parts will be an issue. if there was a huge following then aftermarket parts will be available for a while.


any model that ran for a short time span and you will be either shelving it or going to a machinist.


use my HK4's for example. hk no longer provides parts nor service for these. i took a gamble on mine and bought very good condition ones and then grabbed extractors firing pins buffers and the like to support them 10- 15 years from now.


when i found out HK still supports the P9S models i sent mine into them in georgia so fast it would make yer head spin for their blessing. new buffer/springs installed,test fired, targets sent, swag sent and a personnal letter from smithy on what he thought about it. all FOR FWEEEEEEE!


next pistole will be a HK P9S TARGET in 9mm. high front site for adding a can. wayyyyyyy more 9mm P9S mfg'd than P9S .45's. the .45's have gone thru the roof as far as price and just keep going up. to own a P9S .45 target kit with both slides(target and combat) NILS wood grips and combat plastic grips, will be very spendy for me to purchase if ever. especially NIB unfired.

[HHI944]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Where do you live and what's the finish on your Commander?

I rarely see P7's in shops either, but everyone knows CDNN has them all day long for $500 and usually in super condition. I don't know anyone who sells any kind of Commander for $500 all day long.

I'm in SC and the finish is Duracoat Dark Earth and about 90%, some scratches and what not but nothing big.
You can get RIA commanders for about $500................if you can find 'em.

[Shuie]

I'd trade a P7PSP for a Colt. I'd probably throw some money at the guy with the Colt on top of the trade, too.

[m21sniper]

Guys definitely love paying that Colt Tax.

My brother is the same way. Had to have an HBAR Colt AR. Paid $$$ for it. My Bushmaster is more accurate. LOL...

My comments were strictly an appraisal of the two guns merits as weapons, not their values. If it would not make financial sense then obviously it would be a bad trade.

[Shuie]

Not for an AR, but I'll pay it every time for a 1911.

[m21sniper]

I love 1911's too, but i can only justify myself one full power carry spoon.

I own a P7.

To me it's not a hard choice. But if there was no such thing as a P7, i'd be perfectly happy with a nice 1911 too. I don't like most of them how they come out of the box though. In fact as a carry weapon i prefer a weapon with a double action trigger (or a squeezecocker )

HHI944: I'd be very interested to see the comments you saw that claim the P7 is an unreliable pistol. It's reputation is as one of the most reliable (and accurate) pistols of all time.

EDIT: I just read the whole P7 thread at Glock Talk, and one over at HKPRO, and a few others. I'll be damned if i could find one person who in any way negatively commented on the P7's reliability, or at all, for that matter. Even after my re-examination of the web specifically looking for reliability complaints, all i can find is comments supporting it's universally held reputation of being considered to be a supremely reliable pistol. I have never once, ever heard anyone call a P7 unreliable?

Every thread echoes the same sentiments:

*As accurate as any handgun you can buy
*Tremendous reliability
*Great size/shape for carry, but a bit heavy
*One of the best trigger pulls of any service pistol ever made

[jyl]

I'm pretty sure a RIA Commander is not the same as a Sr 80 Colt Commander. Where $ is concerned.

[m21sniper]

Correct. There is no "Colt Tax" on a Rock Island armory pistol....only on Colts. I would expect a new RI to cost substantially less than a used Colt, or any P7. (Not that the is anything special about the Colt except for the fact that it says "Colt's" on the side.)

HHI, you do have a Colt, right?

PS: Series 70 guns are considered to be more valuable as shooters, aren't they?