I drive a tundra. I had another tundra before this one.

No problems so far fastening the floor mats correctly or remembering which one is the go pedal and which one is the stop pedal ;)

Did ya read the recall?

Ya mean the one that says this?:

if my pedal starts acting up and gets stiff or sticky, I'll deal with it. Just like every other potential mechanical problem.

I know how to fasten my floor mats correctly (which are still in place BTW).
I know where the ignition key is and how to turn it off.
I know where the gear shift is and I know how to put it in neutral.
I know where the brake is and how to push on it.
I know how my gas pedal feels and will notice it if it starts feeling unusual.

Believe me the brakes on a newer tundra are MORE than enough to haul down the truck even at full throttle. They are huge.
14" front rotors with aluminum 6 piston calipers, 13" rear rotors with 4 piston calipers.
Just looking at the brake pedal is enough to slow one of these trucks down. Even without the power assist they're probably stronger than ford brakes.
I am not concerned at all.

This issue is over-blown and over-hyped. toyota is going overboard as a publicity deal. They want to be seen as the company that cares and will hurt themselves before putting the public in danger, as opposed to ford who would rather burn up people than admit their car has a design issue.

Toyota doesn't stand to lose that much money on this.
They were selling cars for very little profit. They're betting that if they sit on them for a little while and then come out with an advertising campaign with the spotlight on how overly-cautious they were over public safety, they'll come out smelling like a rose and the price will go up and they'll be able to sell the cars anyway, maybe at a higher mark-up.

I am not concerned at all.

Sammy the cars they pulled off of the market accounted for 57% of their sales last year. The shutdown is going to cost them over $450 million a week. This is not a minor issue for them. They need to get their S together.

Toyota Sales Halt Raises Quality Questions - WSJ.com

And if I was panicked, what would any "normal" person do?

MASH ON THE BRAKES FOR ALL I AM WORTH TO MAKE THE DAMNED THING STOP!

I help teach the Tire Rack Street Survival School to teens. One of the lessons is that mashing on the brakes is not always the best answer to make the car do what you want in a abnormal driving situation but more often than not it is the instinctive reaction. In this case, it is exactly what you want to do.

So, where did these accelerator pedal mechanisms originate from?

Probably America, just like the rusting frames.:rolleyes:

I have a rental Prius from Hertz as of today, (some guy tagged my land rover) and before I drove off the guy came and pulled the floor mats out. Said he was instructed to remove them from all of their vehicles. Didn't put two and two together until I read this.

BTW: Trying to figure out how to get a Prius started and moving forward is an interesting experience the first time. :)

I was a mere 17 when the throttle cable slipped off of the cam and left the engine in the 924 revving like crazy I was approaching a stop sign at an extremely busy intersection with cars crossing at 50mph. My only instinct was to put the car in neutral, hit the brakes to get it stopped and shut off the ignition. Its scary to think how helpless most are behind the wheel.

I agree with this one. BMW tried a few years ago to come up with a steer-by-wire system, and of course it actually worked. It wasn't implemented because it is simply not 100% reliable. Besides, all countries require a DIRECT MECHANICAL connection between the steering wheel and the rack, so it was never going to be sold anyway.

-The reason that throttle-by-wire is being used by more and more companies on their vehicles is the same old retarded one that got Detroit's big three in so much trouble: It saves money. Yes, a rheostat in the pedal, a wire, a computer, and an actuator at the throttle plate are cheaper than a cable from pedal to throttle, a cruise control mechanism, and a traction control mechanism. Since the throttle-by-wire can do all these things with ONE actuator instead of THREE, one computer instead of three....several dozen parts are no longer needed and several dozen manufacturing steps are deleted, saving huge amounts of money.

Thus.....Toyota is going to wind up "spending a dollar to save a dime".

N!

CTS Corp based in Elkhart, Indiana but the plant is in Mississauga, Ontario.
They also make pedal assemblys for Ford, GM, Chrysler, VW, Mercedes-Benz, Subaru, Nissan....

Which is why I don't think the problem is actually with the accelerator pedal.

Though this does have the makings of another Firestone debacle...

(Jacques Nassar threw Firestone under the bus when it was Ford that had requested the lightened tires (layers removed) in the first place and insisted on them over Firestone's protests.)

Toyota suggests condensation has something to do with the failure. So maybe it isn't all about the gas pedal.

Anything I could do to check out a friends car for her? It's a '10 Corolla... We are a few hrs away from the dealer...


Just make sure it doesnt feel sticky?

Wayne:

You are seeking what seems to be a lost engineering art that was taught to me as "Machine Design". You might remeber this where the engineer spends time making sure the interface witht he human makes sense and allows for human control during both normal and abnormal operating conditions.

You highlight a serious issue with many "so called" designers. I am often shocked by the designs I get from some of the younger folks we hire to do design for us.

Often, they are so focused on the new features they neglect to consider the failure modes and how "non-savvy" people (for lack of a better term) will be able to use the thing safely.

The keyless issue you raise is a perfect example. On many levels it seems to be a solution searching for a problem. When implemented, creates a whole new set of problems.

For any machinery, in industrial settings I am expected to install a EMO (Emergency Machine Off) switch that when pressed will IMMEDIATELY kill the operation of the machine. These switches are typically hard wired to bypass the controls an cause a stoppage immediately. Often is is simply pulling the plug or cutting hte air supply. The controls do not mediate the stopping action. It does not require me to press it for more than a moment for me to accomplish this goal. The switch is typically a muchroom style so the operator knows he has sucessfully operated the switch when things are going horribly wrong and all he wants to do is MAKE IT STOP NOW!

If you have a keyless car, you need a switch like this to address any number of emergency situations. It could be programmed to put the tranny in neutral, kill the engine or do any number of things to cause the vehicle to stop putting energy to the wheels and allow it to stop. Most important, it does with without using the main control system but acts directly to stop the power inputs.

It's also more precise control of the throttle by the computers, which control the entire damn car. Traction control, stability control, and cruise control all require some form of throttle manipulation, which was previously via some sort of actuator and cable. They can also use it for features such as launch control, better coordination between transmission shifting and throttle, etc. In theory it's all more precise because the same computer is coordinating everything. Except for some trucks, you'll be hard pressed to find any new car that isn't drive by wire.

Personally I prefer my FJ80, it has an ECU for the fuel injection and that's it! Easy to fix, but there's not much to break.

innerestin' but seems all of these things could be accomplished with brack actuation and spark manipulation.

Delorenzo wrote this before the sales halt. Toyota is not the same Toyota of years past.

Autoextremist: Three Troubled Brands

Part of it:

.............. In Toyota’s case, their relentless obsession to be the biggest, baddest car company on the planet has cost them dearly. Too many plants were built, which led to the company having too much capacity on hand, and in the process of doing that they took their collective eyes off of the ball, which led to an undeniable slip in quality, heretofore their Holy Grail, and the principle raison d’etre for the company. And remember, all of this was undertaken in the quest to unseat General Motors as the world’s biggest automaker. Sounds wildly misguided and painfully irrelevant right about now, doesn’t it?

But there’s more to Toyota’s slide than the above-mentioned laundry list of reasons. The fact of the matter is that the company that thrived on being the quiet but strong and formidable No. 2 absolutely sucks at being No. 1. They’re so bad at it in fact that they’ve completely lost their mojo.

In the old days Toyota could get by with their blandtastic transportation devices because they smugly knew that their customers would go along to get along with that style of detached motoring, because their customers also knew that nothing went wrong with their vehicles, ever. And that was plenty good enough.

Now in the midst of a relentless series of recalls, that ol’ Toyota quality magic has been blown to smithereens, and their reputation is in tatters. And amazingly enough consumers have quickly gotten the message that there are other automakers out there delivering the kind of quality numbers that used to be exclusively associated with Toyota.

And now that this has happened, Toyota has begun questioning everything they do with the kind of public hand-wringing that is painful to watch, because it’s clear they don’t really get it, no matter how well-intentioned their public self-flagellation is.

Do they make bland vehicles? Absolutely. And that didn’t used to be a problem. But in today’s cutthroat market it is a huge problem for Toyota because to the consumer if the quality is comparable, then all things being equal they will naturally gravitate toward style and appealing design, and Toyota is nowhere when it comes to those factors. As in not even close. ............

................... In the Aftermath of the Detroit Auto Show what struck me the most was that three brands – BMW, Honda and Toyota – brands that had formerly had their proverbial **** together, had all gotten completely off track, displaying in varying degrees an ugly combination of delusional and wrong-headed thinking and utter cluelessness that left me with the stark realization that they had completely forgotten what they stood for, and had no idea what to do or where to go next..

I remember a short time back reading a piece from Toyota's CEO admitting that they had lost their all-consuming focus on quality, and that the company was striving to recover that lost magic. They still make great cars, but there's some validity in the statement that others have caught up.

It's not just that others have caught up, but that Toyota has slipped, as Matt Delorenzo's article suggests.

A similar opinion of mine related to BMW bike quality. Outsourcing has definitely impacted beemer quality.

Don't take chances, just take it back.

To me Toyota has never been the premium name that people seem to think it is. I've had crap luck with several of their products.

To me, Honda is a much better marque.

Maker of Toyota accelerator says number of reported incidents is small

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (CP) – 19 hours ago

ELKHART, Ind. — The supplier of gas pedals used in Toyota's eight recalled car and truck brands in Canada and the United States says it knows of only a few cases of drivers having problems with accelerators.

Supplier CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS) said Wednesday that Toyota told it about fewer than a dozen cases in which drivers struggled with pedals. CTS said it knows of no accidents or injuries tied to the problem. The supplier also said it's not aware of any cases where the pedal became stuck after drivers pushed it down, potentially causing unwanted acceleration.

Last week, as Toyota announced a voluntary recall of 2.3 million popular models, the automaker wrote in a letter to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that pedals, which dated back to the 2002 model year, could "in the worst case" become stuck in the depressed position.

Toyota has decided to stop sales and production of eight recent car and truck models across North America while it fixes the faulty gas pedals, including Camry sedans, Tundra trucks and RAV4 crossovers.

The move affect plants and dealers in the United States and Canada.

Yours and wayne's posts are both excellent reading, and i agree with you both 100%

Wow, the Toyota exploded too huh?

Gotta love that Toyota "quality."

I think it's high time people stopped running their mouth about how they could have done better than the trooper in his shoes. Obviously, his car wanted to kill him, and would not take no for an answer. His brakes were obviously on fire from over-heating....so hard was he pushing that pedal. Since the retarded start button wouldn't kill the engine, and his brakes UTTERLY FAILED to stop the vehicle, the only other possible option was smacking the car into nuetral. I wonder if it has some sort of circuitry to prevent the car being put into neutral at WOT. I bet it does.

I bet that cop didn't have one single option as his car decided to kill them all but to hold on and pray.

Too bad for him he didn't buy a Ford, he'd still be alive.

BTW, it appears the accelerator maker is Chinese, not American. They have several factories in China. If these are Chinese made it only reinforces my previous feelings about Chinese products- especially electronics, and specifically switches- being unreliable junk.

What about the Japanese engineer who programmed the shift logic?

The 911 audio from the now-deceased policeman details that he tried shifting into neutral. Apparently these cars DO NOT shift into neutral when the engine is very far off idle. You can move the stick, but it'll stay in Drive. It's another reason I want nothing to do with any electronically controlled transmission (PDK, DSG, regular autofail, you name it) from any mfr.

That isn't a supplier issue, it's a case of Toyota thinking they're smarter than the driver.

agree 100%.

except for trucks. LOVE my Tundra and LOOOOOVED my taco.

I would never buy a non-American truck. American trucks kick butt, there's just no reason to buy foreign.

That's the protectionist in me, but seriously, F-150's are great trucks. So are Dodge Rams, and so have been many past Chebys and GMC's.

Of course, to each his own. :)

Exactly. This car killed him, he had no recourse but to die. (I bet the no neutral from WOT was to prevent people from trying to intentionally blow up their engines for warranty purposes)

And oh, the accelerator is made in China, not the USA.

Toyota quality baby...

SO PEOPLE DON'T SCREW AROUND- TAKE YOUR TOYOTA BACK IMMEDIATELY!

It would be a real shame if one of you nice Pelicans got killed and then burned to a crisp by your wonderful Toyota motor vehicle.

Wow. I can't help but think back to a similar incident involving Airbus...

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Why do you keep saying that?

"The faulty part was manufactured by Indiana-based supplier CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS) at a plant in Mississauga, just west of Toronto."

Wow, this whole story makes me love my cable actuated and manual gear box 1978 911 with zero electronics sooo much :).

Sorry, looked up the company and all their factories appeared to be in China. My bad.

Damn Americans, can't make nothin' right! ;)

Sure. Anyone can say that about their older cars. But as I once recall when I had a CIS issue, a mechanic telling me most of the CIS parts are no longer made, so fixing it will be an increasing challenge.

All I'm saying is at one point or the other for an infinite # of reasons, we'll have to succumb to modern design and dubious engineering.

That is when I will be spending $2,000 to convert my CIS to a Bitz racing EFI setup, and my gas mileage, throttle response and HP will increase. Next big project I`d like to tackle.

I see where you're coming from with that... however, just to be contrary, I will comment that my previous 911 SC is one of 2 cars that I have experienced a sticking throttle at WOT. The other was a Triumph TR3. No electronics there to speak of. The only difference is obviously that I was able to survive both incidents, and by staying calm I was able to avoid damaging the equipment as well. Any time you get in a car, you are playing the odds. I would appreciate one mechanical safety kill switch however. I wouldn't be surprised to see manufacturers incorporating something to that effect in future vehicles.

The Toyota doesn't allow you to take the car out of gear and the brakes are insufficient to stop it. When it sticks WOT, unless you hold the start button in for 3 seconds steady, you're dead.

In a car with manual mechanical controls you can shut the car off or just put it into neutral.

"Tin Hair Syndrome"

Look Sniper, this just hapened in your neck of the woods:

Driver Claims Her Toyota Suddenly Accelerated Causing It To Slam Into Laundromat - cbs3.com