I don't disagree that Silverlight/MSFT will ultimately not be successful, at least not to the degree that MSFT would like.

But the ingredients are there for them to force the issue.

All that's required is an enhancement to the OS that unfortunately makes flash content a problem for system/browser stability, (a position that Apple and Google have already taken with their mobile devices) and alternatives, other than Silverlight like HTML5, to avoid the anti trust issues they faced in the past with IE and alternate browsers.

If they do that Flash is dead.

red-beard- thats funny .... Faux Books - Original Book Works, USA

I am not very concerned with that possibility. It is possible, but not likely.

My biggest concern is when HTML5 controls most video delivery (5-8 years?). Flash's penetration rate (Flash Player 10 is already at 97%) is so high b/c youtube is the main distributor. If youtube uses HTML5, future Flash player penetration will suffer greatly.

If this scenario is coupled with an all out attempt by Microsoft to kill Flash, well that would create a perfect storm for Flash's demise.

At that point I would suggest the Adobe no longer release their Creative Suites for Mac. The ultimate SNUB!

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Let's also not forget that youtube re encoded pretty much all of its content solely to accomodate iPhone users.

How long did that take them? Less time than iPhones have been on the market.

The recession hit Adobe hard, profits were off nearly 30% end of last year.

Apple users account for 25% of Adobes numbers.

Cutting off 25% of your revenue stream just to snub someone would be a terribly foolish thing to do.

It would put them out of business.

Apple would jump in and buy them and Jobs wins.

Ok, why doesn't , Adobe flash, write a code thats not buggy for Mac users? Snub?

MCA is correct in his position that there is just a ton of poorly written code out there.

Part of the problem with Flash is, what is it? Is it a design tool or is it a programmers tool.

When designers get their hands on Flash they use different methods/tools to achieve the same result that a guy like MCA can by writing code.

Designers create big bloated unoptimized flash units.

A good Actionscript guy can achieve better results with smaller/leaner optmized and compatible code.

Guys like MCA are very valuable but more often than not their clients do not understand their value. "Can't I just get a graphics intern to do that?"

I feel his pain.

Yea, that beta is nice. But as you can see, it will take a long time to propogate. IE8 isn't html5 compliant ... and we all know that IE6 is STILL hanging around.

The new video tag in HTML5 will indeed be sweet. It will be great for basic video players. But, there is the issue of rights manage material and security. And the issue of metadata, streaming techniques, etc. For more robust players, Flash will still rule the day - not even sure if HTML5 will allow for dynamic variable bitrates.

Thank you so very much! You hit the nail on the head. Someone understands me :).

I'll also add that 99% of Flash developers don't know how to make use of the browser forward and back buttons. Again, this makes people think Flash sucks and they start hating. Understandable.

I know that a lot of Mac people claim that Flash is buggy. Here at work 7 out of 9 use Mac. Never seem to have issues (I hop on their machines to check performance) - and these machines vary greatly in age and specs.

However some of the performance claims are true. Apple won't allow Adobe to work with their api in order to offer hardware acceleration (Microsoft does work with Adobe). This creates a greater load on Mac CPU usage.

you can use iPad for up to 10 hours while surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching videos, or listening to music.... thats a bold claim so i'm sure cpu usage is of major concern

I don't know what prices your looking at but for comparable specs mac's are overpriced.
base15 macbook pro at $1700
Configure - Apple Store (U.S.)
4gb of ram ddr3 1066mhz
2.53ghz Core2duo (it doesn't state what model though and there is other important factors in cpu power besides clock speed)
nVidia 9400m
250gb hdd 5400 rpm (lol only 5400)

Toshiba laptop - $1200
Newegg.com - TOSHIBA Qosmio X505-Q860 NoteBook Intel Core i5 430M(2.26GHz) 18.4" 4GB Memory DDR3 1066 500GB HDD 7200rpm DVD Super Multi NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M - Laptops / Notebooks
4gb 1066mhz ddr3 ram
2.26 i5 which would ruin that core2duo
500gb hdd 7200 rpm
nVidia gts 360m (which absolutely crushes a 9400m the full desktop 9400 is already a joke so i couldn't imagine a 9400m)
and an 18.4" display

Asus laptop - $1100
Newegg.com - ASUS G Series G51Vx-X3A NoteBook Intel Core 2 Duo P8700(2.53GHz) 15.6" 4GB Memory 320GB HDD 7200rpm DVD Super Multi NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M - Laptops / Notebooks
4gb 800mhz ddr2 ram
2.53 ghz core2duo P8700 probably the same as the macbook
320gb hdd 7200 rpm
gtx260m (another gfx card that would dominate the 9400m)
slightly slower ram speed but the gfx card more than makes up for a 200mhz deficiency which provides minimal performance gains.

two quick glances from newegg

as for that mac pro I don't even know where to begin, it seems like the bastard child of a file share server and a normal desktop, optional raid controller, optional fibre channel, Xenon cpu (which is damn nice don't get me wrong but your standard user won't come anywhere close to needing Xenon computing power so it's a waste). Standard only 3gb of ram really? What's with the gt120.... what garbage and for $200 more you can get a 4870! (a good card but that's overpriced as 4870's go for 150-175)

so for $2500
2.66ghz Quad core Xenon
3gb of DDr3 1066 ram
640gb 7200rpm hdd
nVidia Gt120

my home computer (which i Built and I use for gaming) for $380
3.0Ghz Athlon 64x2 (Xenon would crush it if it could actually be used to it's potential but it's a pretty nice cpu)
4gb DDr2 800mhz Gskill pi black low latency (very fast high quality ram not generic oem part)
160gb 7200rpm hdd (got me beat there but hdd's are very cheap and very easy to upgrade/add)
Radeon Hd4890 (this thing would laugh at he gt120 and is faster than a 4870 which is $200 more on the mac pro)

The mac pro also does not specify it's power supply so that's another : ( in my book.

That dell T7500 you were trying to compare the mac pro to is a terrible comparison (i'm no fan of dell myself) but that's a workstation for autocad and that kind of software, notice the gfx cards that come on it standard and the options availible, workstation cards are always expensive. The T7500 also comes with a 3year warranty with Onsite assistance, that's another $250 for the Mac pro and without onsite assistance

In general I'm not a fan of big brand desktops as they are all pretty over priced, I find that mac's tend to be the biggest abusers for what they are though, intel machines with a fancy case. Those numbers are facts not just abstract saying oh i configured them and they looked like this and cost this much, not providing any links or anything.

Let me just state that I am not anti-mac i just see them and think man i build it or buy it cheaper. Yes I have used them and on occasion a coworker brings in a mac and asks me to support it (which I haphazardly attempt lol) If you like mac good for you, if you like pc cool too. Macs are just more expensive than a comparable pc.

Well for the Laptop I started with a 15 inch machine same as the base Mac Laptop. After all that was the point, to try and equalize the hardware to get a realistic look at pricing. Thought that was understood.

For Toshiba the Tecra A10-ST9017 fit the bill since the processor and other specs were the closest to the Apple base machine. $1,099.

Upgrades:

Windows 7 Ulitmate 64. $90. OS X is 64 bit. There is no such thing as a stripped Mac OS.

Increase base RAM to 4 GB. $110

Picked the 15.4" Diagonal WSXGA+ display since the stock display has a lower resolution than the Macs. $75. Now the Macs resolution is somewhere between the 2 Toshiba choices so we'll stick with the stock display.

256 MB NVIDIA Card. $100

230 GB HD. $30. (hmm your right about the 5400 rpm drive, thought they all came with 72's these days)

Bluetooth. $25

Camera $35

9 cell battery. $99, Macs run up to 7 hours on the stock battery.

So that box out the door is $1,588.

Not what I would call a monstrous difference in price.

The exercise was to illustrate that Apple is not the only machine at a given price point for a given configuration.

Can you find cheaper and loss leaders, sure, but that was not the argument.

And like I said, your home built machine does not factor into this unless you are willing to sell it to me for $380 and ship it free and provide service and support for a year.

Confirmed: Apple and Adobe Collaborating on iPhone Flash

I'd sell it for cheaper than $2500 and still make a profit with a 1 year limited warranty.
Actually many people do this (well without the warranty) they build a computer pirate an Os and then sell it on craigslist saying they need the money for school or tough times and they make a nice little 2-300 profit.

The A10 is not the most current Toshiba Tecra series, so your comparing last seasons Tecra with the current Macbook pro, the current line of tecra is A11.
2 A11's with superior specs and lower price tag

Toshiba Tecra® A11-S3530 Laptops $1200

Toshiba Tecra® A11-S3540 Laptops $1350

I'm sorry it's just I see so much college douchebaggery with kids my age that have macs and think they are so amazing it's quite frustrating.

rumors out now that a big iPad is planned in a few months - close to a MacBook in capabilities

maybe just a rumor...

if? flash & camera???? only other complaint worth noting would be multitasking,(could that be handled with apps???) lots of rumors! Everywhere

This

My three best friends all got Macbooks. They would always talk about how their $1100-$1300 laptop was better than my $900 Dell. The specs were almost identical. All three had hard drives fail. Two of them had optical drives fail. Two also had battery issues to the point where if they take it off of the charger, even for 5 seconds, the battery dies. My battery lasts for less than hour now, but it is better than what they have. Two of my friends have since updated to the new 15" pros, which I love and wish I could get for my next laptop but will probably pass on due to cost.

My inspiron is still going strong with zero issues (knocking on wood like my life depends on it). While I do not feel that this small sample is in any way a representation of the overall experience of mac vs. pc, I do get a certain amount of satisfaction out of it because of the smugness and smack talking of my friends.

after posting this tread.... looks to me smugness & smack on both sides, 1st time I had experienced it, LOL

Hmm, last years models. Did not know that.

Interesting that Apple are perceived as overcharging but Toshiba selling last years model for more than the current box is ok?

And again, your self built box does not count. When you are shipping millions of units a quarter like the major brands and have to deal with the sourcing, outsourcing, manufacturing, support, logistics, marketing etc...etc...etc... ad infinitum like they are then we'll talk. Till then it has no basis in comparison.

Sounds like they need to learn how to take care of their stuff. Don't lend them your car.