Utility bill question - "Hot water service?!?"

WolfeMacleod · 01:31 PM

Ok, so my girlfriend lives in an apartment nearby. Last week I had the pleasure of looking her utility bill and saw something I've never seen before.
A charge for "Hot water service"

Umm.. what?!?
So let me this straigh. Water is pumped in. Goes to an ELECTRIC water heater where it is then heated.
So in fact, "hot water" is being paid for in the electric bill and this "hot water service" portion of the water/serwer/garbage bill.

Has anyone ever seen this before?
The company is called ISTA. http://www.ista-na.com

Now, the "hot water" portion of the bill wasn't much, a bit less than $10, but still.
How do they provide this "service?"

I suggested to her to disconnect the water heater and pump COLD water in through a faucet to heat it for a month and then see what happens. Technically, they shoulnd't bill for "hot water" then, right?

Any thoughts on this?

Big Ed · 02-03-2010, 01:39 PM

Not sure in your area, but out here a number of people have rental water heaters. Not sure if that's true in her situation or not.

TechnoViking · TechnoViking's Garage

Yea, or could be some kind of escrow for the equipment when it needs to be serviced or replaced?

stomachmonkey · 02-03-2010, 01:42 PM

Now that's funny.

Question, does she have her own electric meter? I assume yes since she gets an electric bill.

Shut down the main breaker. If the water heater shuts off then I think she'd have a strong argument re double dipping.

WolfeMacleod · 02:04 PM

OK, so I called ISTA and was given a not very good answer.

The hot water service is a charge to heat the water, and to USE the water. There's a water meter that goes into the heater somewhere.

Ok, so she's being billed for total gallon of water consumed (let say 1200 gallons) and then paying to use the water that's heated through the tank (lets say 500 of those 1200 gallon)

Seems to me that she's already paying for that water heating through her electricity bill!

Something funny goign on here...

I could PERHAPS see this IF and ONLY IF the hot water meter is placed BEFORE the main water line, seperating the two completely.

Somachmonkey, I'm pretty sure she's got her own electric meter...

From ISTA's website..

On October 1st, Bill S661 will allow for properties who have longed to find ways to manage their utility cost to submeter.

What does that mean?
Hot water allocation is an approved calculation process used to determine the total water consumption in a home by measuring hot water usage. This process is used in communities where the original piping was installed so that several residences share a cold water line. Simply put, there is not an individual entry point or shut off valve for water delivery to each unit.
However, if each unit is equipped with a hot water heater, a meter can be placed on the inlet of the hot water heater to accurately measure the amount of hot water used. The cold water is then calculated in proportion to the amount of hot water used.
So what does that mean to you?
• Rent with a competitive edge
• Decrease your operating expenses
• Increase your ROI
• Conserve natural resources
• Put expenses back into the hands of the residents

WolfeMacleod · 02-03-2010, 02:13 PM

Found several complaints about ISTA's billing on ripoffreports.com And a few other things scattered over the webt.

waters · 02-03-2010, 04:04 PM

How bout on my cell phone a RTA (rapid transit fee) when I lived in Tacoma. I am proud to say I dont own a cell phone anymore ...

strupgolf · 02-03-2010, 04:06 PM

The sad thing about this is, it's only a start. Utilities will start to charge for taking a drink of water soon, its coming to that point. If there's money to be made from picking up a penny, they'll find it.

A930Rocket · 04:43 PM

She may have a meter can to measure electrical usage and a water meter, but doesn't pay for utilities (except in her rent). In order to recover more of those costs, they have added a meter to the HW heater. An electrical and gas meter can be added as well.

Gogar · 05:29 PM

Wolfe,

It means the water meter for each apartment is at the hot water heater for each apartment,

and the total usage for each apartment is "estimated" based on the amount of hot water used,

via an "accepted" percentage of hot/cold usage.

It doesn't mean they're billing her TWICE for hot,

It means they're ESTIMATING the amount of cold based on the amount of hot they're metering at the water heater.

A930Rocket · 02-03-2010, 05:29 PM

I would think it would be installed on the input side of the HW heater. Measures the same amount and no HW to damage the meter.

BTW, shouldn't it be callled a "cold water heater"? The water goes in cold and comes out hot!

stomachmonkey · 02-03-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

It means they're ESTIMATING the amount of cold based on the amount of hot they're metering at the water heater.

My local water dept does something similar. They estimate our yearly sewage/waste portion of the bill based on water usage from Oct to Jan.

Kinda makes sense, theoretically you'd have the roughly same amount going out as coming in.

They can't do it monthly year round because our sprinkler usage is so high for so long and that water does not run into the sewer.

WolfeMacleod · 02-03-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

She may have a meter can to measure electrical usage and a water meter, but doesn't pay for utilities (except in her rent). In order to recover more of those costs, they have added a meter to the HW heater. An electrical and gas meter can be added as well.

I looked at the heater today. There is a meter, and a little "dangly" thing attached to it via a wire. (maybe a useage transmitter?)
She does pay for utilities... they're not covered in her rent.

Got it, Gogar, thanks. Found that a bit ago. I think "estimation" is a crappy way of determining usage.

mattdavis11 · 02-04-2010, 04:09 AM

I wondered about a few similar things when I moved into the apartment I'm in now. I asked who provided the water and would I get a bill. The answer was a company from Florida and most definitely. They said it was sub-metered. Ok, so I look at my water heater (gas, yes!), yep there's some funny stuff going on in there, wires, extra piping. That's where they meter, and after more investigation, I find out the air handler has a heater core, not an element. Yep, water heats this place and it looks like I pay twice for the same water because it gets routed back to the heater after it runs through the air handler. Doesn't matter much though, I don't turn the heat on much and it stays around 60-65, unless it's freezing out, then I turn it on. Haven't gotten a bill yet, it's been over a month. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that I might slip through the cracks.

They won't let you wash your car here either, now I know why. It's because they can't measure how much you used. There are no spigots on the building, except for fire, but if you know anything about plumbing, it's real easy to get a water hose hooked up inside and run it out when you need it.