The exact question I was going to ask. Everyone likes to bring up the SERE examples, but it is well established that it is done - the more important question is why is it done?

Do they hook electrodes to yer balls as part of training too?

why..
to give you an idea of what you may face..
everyone will babble at some point..
it's like DE..

Rika

Why would a POW face waterboarding?

terrorist are not POW..
McCain was a POW..

Rika

Please reconcile.

"Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa http://forums.pelicanparts.com/image...s/viewpost.gif
Why are U.S. Military personnel waterboarded?"

in sere school, anyone can drop out at any time. the young men are there because they want to be. they are volunteers. they want to be tested. they won't run from combat or nasty situations. to remove or lessen the fear of waterboarding is a good thing. the unknown is worse than 3 or 4 minutes in hell. if waterboarding isn't offered in class, the guys will do it off-base. you will not find an lot of wise old people in sere training. i was going to say, "no vaginas either", but air crews and the modern military, i'm not sure.

POW= in military uniform when caught...

SERE training..
how not to get caught & survive while running..
+ you get a head's up of what could happen if caught..

Rika

Why would a member of our Military, as a POW, face waterboarding, if caught?

"Why would a member of our Military, as a POW, face waterboarding, if caught?"
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the technique is reasonably effective, leaves no marks, hard to prove. little special equipment required. less messy than some alternatives.

IMO
some of our guys who did get caught
would have preferred waterboarding..
but hanging by your arms of the ground..
with your arms BEHIND you for hrs...
is much more humane..

Rika

Why is the technique effective on the members of our Military?

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.

~Kipling

It's war out there gentlemen.

"War is not nice."
~Barbara Bush

The same reason it's effective on the enemy. People don't like the sensation of drowning.

At all.

Is the T-shirt business really this slow today? What a stupid question.

Let's leave emotion out of it and stick to the topic at hand.

better yet, let's just have it out:

There are many around the world that believe waterboarding is an effective method for extracting information from the best that our Military has to offer. if you agree with that, then you must agree that it is torture, the logic being the best our Military has to offer would not offer any information unless they were tortured. And the Military prepares for this scenario.

Do I personally think it's torture? When used on military and paramilitary (terrorists and the like), no, I do not believe it's torture. Why? Because as part of your training, you can effectively prepare for it. You cannot prepare for the removal of limbs, you cannot prepare for burns by heat or chemicals, you cannot prepare for hanging, etc. Furthermore, when you join the military or similar, part of the job description is death. In this way, waterboarding is not torture.

Is waterboarding torture for non-military personnel? Let's say Rick Lee has his way and he's able to torture innocent family members of terrorists captured as part of any ongoing campaign. If these innocent family members, like the parents of the underwear bomber, were waterboarded, that would be torture.

To recap: for military and paramilitary, waterboarding is not torture as it can be reasonably prepared for as part of your training. For citizens, it is torture.

"Why is the technique effective on the members of our Military?"

performed by who? if performed in training, read post 47. in the real world, i think the
technique would be effective on anyone except james bond. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Your logic is utterly flawed T-shirt man.

Interrogation is effective at extracting info at times. Is that torture? Or are you just obtuse?

then you believe it is torture.

again ..
terrorist are not part of any Military..
and their not civies..
surf's up..

Rika

Terrorists train as Military.

Military, paramilitary, terrorists: waterboarding is not torture.

Civilians: waterboarding is torture.

Terrorists are about as military as you are T-shirt man.

"then you believe it is torture."
i honestly believe that when i am in the war zone, 8000 miles from home, i will do
whatever feel like doing. i have zero respect for white collar war fighters. assigining
american p.c. catagories to techniques and methods will have little or more likely no
effect on either highly trained personnel or goat herders when no one is looking.
possibly (hopefully) i'm wrong. i'm done.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

when they put on a UNIFORM.
represent a recognized goverment..
they are soldiers and SHOULD be afforded those rights..
anything else..
is hefty bag material...
which works well if you need to know..
+ no water to mop up..

Rika

Rights? When AQ or Taliban captures one of our best, you think they are thumbing through the Geneva Convention looking for loopholes?

was answering your ? as too who should get treated as a soldier...
afforded those rights...

when catching some Towlie in rags..
he is not a recognized soldier by any gov..
has no true/recognizable uniform...
he does not represent any elected / recognized gov..
he is a thug...

Rika

Grey creates doubt.

One of my all time favorites! From the same poem. . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .
So-oldier of the Queen!

If you like Kipling, I recommend a book called Kipling Sahib.

Thanks for the recco. :)