Question for parents of higher-level math kids (jr high to high school)

[G50]

Not sure if this is a Calif. scenario only, or if most schools throughout the country are like this.

Goes like this:

In the Cal public schools (at least in our district) there are 3 "tracks" for math, starting in 7th grade.

Track 1 = 7th intro to pre alg, 8th pre alg, 9th alg, 10th geomet, 11th alg II, 12th pre-calc.

Track 2 = 7th pre-alg, 8th alg, 9th geomet., 10th alg II, 11th pre-cal, 12th calc.

Track 3 = 7th alg, 8th geom, 9th alg II., 10th pre-cal, 11th AP calc, 12th "college math."

My son is in 6th grade, and is advanced in math. Mostly b/c in addition to his school work, we basically home school him for math, have done so daily since he was a baby.

Currently in 6th grade, he is roughly at the "pre-alg" level on the tracks above.

In May, the 6th graders take a placement test. If he went in "cold" he'd almost certainly score enough to qualify for "Track 2" at a minimum (and based on his achievement in math in 6th grade, he's probably already qualified).

There's a "prep class" that he can take, every week from now to May, that would give him a good shot at scoring enough to get on "Track 3" (apparently not a lot of kids make that).

Sorry for the long set up, but here's my questions, hopefully some that have gone through this have some insight:

1) Is it worth pushing for track 3? I don't think he is going to be a mathematician later in life. At this point, he doesn't have a "love" for math, he's just been pretty deeply trained and of course likes it because he's good at it.

2) What is the highest level of math the current SAT tests to?

My thought is maybe stick with Track 2, because 3 probably won't help with the SAT.

Also, Track 2 isn't exactly a walk in the park (I remember taking Alg II in 12th grade!). My guess is his grades are almost certainly going to be better on Track 2 than Track 3, and given college emphasis on GPA these days, maybe that's a determinative factor.

Sorry for the kind of dull question, but I need to make a decision on enrolling him in the "prep course" very soon, and keep going back and forth. I'd love to hear from anyone who has some experience with their kids and this.

[Soterik]

Also, Track 2 isn't exactly a walk in the park (I remember taking Alg II in 12th grade!). My guess is his grades are almost certainly going to be better on Track 2 than Track 3, and given college emphasis on GPA these days, maybe that's a determinative factor.

So, we were pretty much on the track 3 through middle school here in Washington, but my son got into high school and the math got a lot more difficult (tough teacher as well) and the other expectations and homework ramped up as well....plus more extra-curricular activities (football, wrestling,). He started out in 9th grade with the Alg II, but it was a little too tough. So, he took a half step back....

Note here that I asked my son while typing this, so he's telling me that he's on a track that's a little more 2.5, not quite 3, at this time. HOWEVER, he's going to end up at the end in 12th grade with a track that's potentially harder than track 3 as he's in the Intl. Baccalaureate program, and he'll end up in SL level Intl. Bacc. which also gets college credit.

My sense is that don't kill your kid with the extra pressure and work... it appears that (at least in Wash.) that you can shift a little. Also, do take a look at the Intl. Bacc. program, it's considered to be the hardest curriculum in high school, and is weighed very heavily by admittance counselors.

Good luck, and have fun!!

Eric

[porsche4life]

Having taken a Calc class my freshman year of college I would say go with track 2.... That class kicked my azz and I am good at math... Of course I went to a podunk school and college algebra was the highest math class I had taken previously....

[Phantoms]

The current SAT covers through Algebra II

[porsche4life]

The ACT has like one or two trig questions... without taking trig and not studying worth a crap I got a 28 on the math and a 29 overall....

[BGCarrera32]

Track 2. College Math is for...college.

Kudos to you for home schooling him in math.

[masraum]

I was like your son. I wasn't in Cali, but essentially took the Track 2 course. Having Calc in high school, if he's going to go into college and do anything science/eng related would be a good thing. I took Calc in HS. I then AP tested out of basic Calc in college, but had to take Engineering Calc 1 anyway. Calc 1 was super easy (to me) compared to Alg 2.

I think that track 2 is adequate. I wonder how much there is to be gained by going through track 3.

Track 3 wouldn't hurt from an academic point of view, but it may hurt socially.

[ths911]

My kids have been in the CA school system.

My older son did track 2 and is now a mathmatics major at UCLA and my younger one is on track 3 (10th grade now). If you son has a gift for math (whether he loves it or not) you should pursue the most challenging for him. They get BORED in simple classes. My older one slept in his early classes and the teachers knew it. Since he was getting A's it didn't matter to the school. If a kid is bored with school, they will look to other thing for a challenge. In my case I challenged my parents.

[cantdrv55]

My son did track 3. I always thought he'd get into the sciences, having been accepted into the Physics program at UC. He changed his major though to Politics and another major in Theater. Go figure. I guess you'd have to train to be an actor too if you want to be a lawyer. He said the science classes started to bore him. I just think he started getting challenged a little too much so he switched to his other interests.

[masraum]

Another possible point.

Pushing them a bit now may be unpleasant for them now, but may pay huge dividends later that you are both thankful for.

[ths911]

cantdrv55,

The key is you have a son in college pursueing something. He's not a drop out, challenging authority and making your life any more difficult.

Support the changes - these kids think they know everything but life is confusing at that age. Heck, its confusing at my age.

[gtc]

Track 3. School isn't supposed to be easy.

[G50]

Thanks for all the comments! Very impressive.

The immediate decision for now is whether or not to enroll him in this "placement preparation" class, which started a couple of weeks ago. This is not run through the schools, it is a commercial program.

I think we'll not do that. It is a placement test, so I think the better course is to just let him see where he places. The class is somewhat "artificial." If, based on his current ability he tests enough for Track 3, we'll worry about that then.

In the big picture, I think 2 is probably better. I don't think he is a "math genius," he is just a very high achiever because of some natural ability and a lot of training.

The other thing is, the only real difference between 2 and 3 is timing. They are the same classes (until 12th grade), just on 3 you take everything a year earlier. That seems to me to be designed mostly for math geniuses/lovers who would be bored on 2 (because it's way too easy). I'm pretty sure he won't be bored in 2, or in school in general. He has so many other things he's involved in, it's pretty much non-stop for him.

Finally, I agree, school isn't supposed to be easy, but in high school these days, grades are very impt. It seems better to have a class be a little too easy and get an A, rather than be a little too hard and get a B+. As far as math, it seems clear track 2 is more than sufficient for SAT prep, and for prep in general for any major in college (including math, although I don't think he will be a math major).

Thanks again, very helpful stuff!

(p.s. cantdrv, I remember being in college in the 80s. Seemed like all the freshmen were "bio/pre-med," that was the thing to be at the time, I guess. I also remember that 90% of them eventually graduated with a poli sci, philosophy, etc. degree!)

[jyl]

My daughter starts HS next year, so I'm facing this question too.

In 7th grade she did algebra, in 8th grade she is doing geometry. She liking math less as she goes along, so I plan on starting her slow in HS - 9th grade "advanced algebra" which is probably similar to the "alg II" in your track 2, and not the "accelerated advanced algebra" which is the other option. It will probably repeat some stuff she has already done, but I want her to get good and confident at it, then next steps will depend on how she's doing.

She will be in the IB program and I'm uncertain how challenging that will be. On the one hand I've heard it is a difficult, challenging program, but one the other hand the head of our middle school specifically warned us that the kids from our school who go into the IB program find the first couple of years too easy. She has been in a tough middle school and would love to coast for awhile, I'm okay with one easy year while she adjusts to high school (and, maybe, realizes that being bored is worse than being busy) but then I want things to get hard again.

She's been in immersion French since kindergarten so we are debating whether to let her use French as her IB foreign language, or switch her to Chinese which she's been studying for only 2 years, that will probably make a big difference to how easy/hard the IB is for her. I want her to study both languages in high school, but one has to be picked as the "official" language fluency requirement and becoming fluent in Chinese is not easy, whereas she's basically there in French.

Another thing I'm planning is to have her do physics in 11th and 12th grade, when her math will be amply strong, while doing a biology class in 9th and a chemistry class in 10th.

Maybe I am naive but I'm not incredibly worried about her grades. I don't really care whether she goes to a Top School (e.g. Stanford) or to a Good School (e.g. University of Oregon) for her bachelors' degree. I do care a lot about whether she goes to Top School or to Good School for her graduate degree. I figure that when she's applying to that graduate program, her high school grades won't matter. And I don't think (need to confirm?) that she's going to need a 4.3 GPA in addition to the IB to get into a Good School. But I may be misguided - not sure.

Anyway, sorry to ramble. Your track 2 looks good to me. If he is scientifically or quantitatively inclined, I think it would make sense to have him do physics and math and some programming and engineering projects, rather than having lots of math but no appreciation for what you can do with that math.

Track 2 = 7th pre-alg, 8th alg, 9th geomet., 10th alg II, 11th pre-cal, 12th calc.

[TechnoViking]

Track 2. Focus on what you are supposed to learn in HS, and get to the point you can freaking ace it, rather than trying to do too much, too fast.

I took a class that was probably between 2 and 3 my senior year and ended up with some gaps in college that were problematic (in engineering school).

When it comes to math learning how to learn is much more important that knowing how to do a particular problem. IMO, making sure he has a deep understanding of Level 2 sounds like he'd be better off than a cursory understanding of level 3.

[Head416]

When I started high school in California (in '94) "honors" math was Geometry. I had classes with people who were indeed math geniuses and they took what was similar to Track 2, but with AP calc in 12th grade.

Why whould AP calc follow pre-calc in track 3, but not in track 2?

Doesn't make sense to me.