Race and Education

[Taz's Master]

Driving to work today I listened to an NPR report on education and race. Apparently the government is going to investigate complaints of poor achievement of blacks and Hispanics in public schools. My question is this: Why is race a significant factor in academic achievement?

The biggest indicator for academic achievement is not race, but parental involvement. Why, instead of pointing the finger at the schools (which if they are racist, evidently manage to educate whites and Asians), don't these studies track parental involvement by race? Are black and Hispanic families as involved in their children's educations to the same extent as white and Asian families? Do black and Hispanic families emphasize/validate academic achievement to the same extent as white and Asian families? If there is a disparity in parental involvement by race is it fair to point the finger at schools or the education system?

[Hugh R]

How come Asian is not considered a minority in this country for Affirmative Action purposes?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

How come Asian is not considered a minority in this country for Affirmative Action purposes?

Actually they are.

No affirmative action initiative has ever explicitly excluded any race or gender.

The problem with Asians in higher education is that their representation in educational institutions is exponentially out of line with their representation of the total population. They make up such a high percentage that they screw up their own curve.

Ironically if affirmative action did not exist then white kids might be screaming for it because the best colleges would all be full of Asians.

[Noah930]

Aren't Asians counted as a majority?

UCLA = University of Causasians Lost amongst Asians
UCI = University of Chinese Immigrants
UCB = University of Chinese Brethren

I didn't make these up.

[cantdrv55]

This is going to end up in PARF.

I agree with you guys so far. Asian immigrant here, came to the US in 1974 along with my three brothers. I was 10, my big bro was 15, my younger brothers were 8 and 6. None of us spoke a lick of English. My mom moved here first to start a new life without my dad whom she divorced just as soon as the courts allowed her. She sent for us two years later after saving enough money from her job as a typist at the BofA world headquarters in SF.

Fast forward twenty five years years later, my Mom retires as a VP at Bank of America. My brothers and I have all graduated from college, a couple of us did not have a student loan to pay back because we worked all through school to pay for tuition and books. My big bro is an accountant, I am a sales exec, my younger brother is a Kaiser MD and my baby bro, well he did OK in real estate until it went bust. Anyway, we are living the American dream but it all started with a dream and a lot of hard work.

[cantdrv55]

My son, who's now a sophomore, goes to UCSC - Univ of Caucasians and Some Chinese. I have heard UCI stood for Univ of Chinese and Indians

[Hugh R]

My comment about Asians was meant with the highest respect. Asians excel in large part because the FAMILY won't accept 2nd best.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Ironically if affirmative action did not exist then white kids might be screaming for it because the best colleges would all be full of Asians.

And if the gov't. didn't classify everything in the world in terms of race or its effect on certain races, then the white kids who didn't get into college would have no idea why and would not blame it on race. This would be the best thing that could happen to everyone who didn't get into college. Not only would they have to focus their efforts on trade school or some other way to make a living, we'd eventually be rid of the victim mentality and countless trillions of $$ and man hours researching how this or that social ill can be pinned on racism.

[Tobra]

You can't make parental involvement an affirmative action program because you can't conveniently track it by race or income level

[M.D. Holloway]

I don't know about other towns but ours is as follows:

The population density is 2,206.6 people per square mile. There were 4,009 housing units at an average density of 726.7/sq mi. The racial makeup of the city is 94.21% White, 1.47% African American, 0.40% Native American, 1.92% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.80% from other races, and 1.18% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.46% of the population.

The median income for a household in the city is $121,641 and the median income for a family is $135,119.

School Ratings:
3 Elementary schools
Highland Village - Exemplary
Heritage - Exemplary
McAuliffe - Exemplary
1 Middle school
Briarhill - Exemplary
1 High school
Marcus - Exemplary

The majority of Highland Village’s population is college educated. Over 85% of the population has some college level education and over 60% hold a post-secondary degree. Technology is a priority in Highland Village. Nearly 95% of the homes in Highland Village connect to the Internet, with over 90% of the population on-line several times a week. The City utilizes the interest in technology to communicate quickly with residents through E-Watch, an on-line version of Neighborhood Watch, and eConnect, an e-mail service for residents to receive City information on topics of interest to them.

Read into it what you want...

[Hugh R]

Years ago (I think after the 2000 census), I read an LA Times article about the various communities/cities in LA County and it compared income with education, there was about a 98% correlation between income and education. Lube, I think the "average" income for a family of four in LA County is like $48,000/year. In my city, I don't think it's as high as yours, but I'm pretty sure it's over $100K.

[lm6y]

Whites and Asians don't get accused of "Trying to be white" if they try to succeed. Blacks, and Hispanics do.

And then you've got the white kids that try so hard to be black.When it comes to kids, I spend most of my time confused.

When I was in school, it didn't mean a rat's ass what color you were. We were all just kids. Now that Political Correctness comes along, the black kids I grew up withj, don't want to talk to me now, because I'm Whitey now.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

And if the gov't. didn't classify everything in the world in terms of race or its effect on certain races, then the white kids who didn't get into college would have no idea why and would not blame it on race. This would be the best thing that could happen to everyone who didn't get into college. Not only would they have to focus their efforts on trade school or some other way to make a living, we'd eventually be rid of the victim mentality and countless trillions of $$ and man hours researching how this or that social ill can be pinned on racism.

Affirmative action includes gender, BTW, women have benefited tremendously from AA, by some accounts more than any other classification.

Oh, and Colleges like AA, someones gotta get you to a bowl game. Follow the money.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

This is going to end up in PARF.

I agree with you guys so far. Asian immigrant here, came to the US in 1974 along with my three brothers. I was 10, my big bro was 15, my younger brothers were 8 and 6. None of us spoke a lick of English. My mom moved here first to start a new life without my dad whom she divorced just as soon as the courts allowed her. She sent for us two years later after saving enough money from her job as a typist at the BofA world headquarters in SF.

Fast forward twenty five years years later, my Mom retires as a VP at Bank of America. My brothers and I have all graduated from college, a couple of us did not have a student loan to pay back because we worked all through school to pay for tuition and books. My big bro is an accountant, I am a sales exec, my younger brother is a Kaiser MD and my baby bro, well he did OK in real estate until it went bust. Anyway, we are living the American dream but it all started with a dream and a lot of hard work.

This is an example of what happens when you don't blame others for your misfortune and instead WORK to improve your stature in life.

It amuses me how anyone born in America can complain about not having opportunity, regardless of race. In some instances I would argue that minorities have MORE opportunites than whites. Despite growing up poor, I did not qualify for any scholarships when I went to college because I was white, but were I a minority I would have qualified for hundreds. Until the black community is willing to accept the fact that their problems lie within and are not due to the influence of "da man", nothing will change. Slavery was hundreds of years go, get over it. They need to cultivate a culture of hard work and success, as opposed to glamorizing the thug life.

I know I'm painting with a broad brush and this in no way reflects many blacks in this country. There are many who came from nothing and made something of themselves, these are the individuals that the culture should be glamorizing.

[Taz's Master]

If indeed the lack of achievement by blakcs and Hispanics in education is due to parental rather than school failings, then we owe it to those communities to point out the failings within the family units. Is determining whether this is a real source of limiting the academic achievement of races worth the risk of insulting/offending those races?

[Rikao4]

of course it's gotta to somebodies fault..
it can't be because they don't try..
fk..come graduation time....
we have parents crying because their kid cannot graduate..
their not mad because their kid is dumb & worthless..
they want a cap & gown pic..
after all... Mownique showed up didn't she..
granted she was preggers with her second child..

& having a rap sheet is seen as a badge of honor..

Rika

[speeder]

I thought that it was UCLA= University of China, like almost...

[Evans, Marv]

Taz,
Your comment about insulting the race(s) by pointing out the lack of parental involvement seems to now be taking a PC drift (not blasting you). If it is, that is one of the reasons we're in the trouble we're in. Having taught for many years, I can attest to the fact that parental involvement is a huge factor in student success. My wife who is currently a teacher frequently comes home complaining about parents of poorly performing kids not responding to her requests for conferences (or anything else) or working with the kid at home with homework. I remember reading an account years ago of a Korean student at one of the ivy league universities at finals time. His mother came to stay with him to take care of his apartment and cook & clean for him while he studied for his finals. Not many parents do that kind of thing to help their kids get ahead.

[Rich76_911s]

Let's be honest here I doubt any of us would want to send our kids into an inner city school system. So there is more to the dynamic than simply saying parents are failing.

I live less than 5 miles away from inner city Philadelphia schools.

My school district is Lower Merion, it has 94% of students who go on to attend institutions of higher education, ranks highest among Pennsylvania schools for SAT and PSAT scores, and all 9 schools in the district have received recognition for excellence from the State, and is frequently recognized as one of the "Top Schools" by several publications.

I'm quite certain that no one in my neighborhood would want their kids swap schools with anyone in the Philadelphia School district, which by the way, as of last year, had the highest drop out rate of any public school system in the country. Although I have no evidence of it, it is safe to assume they likely rank in the bottom of the nations school districts.

It's a complex problem and parenting is at the heart of it, but I do believe we are failing at educating our poor, regardless of skin color. We as a nation owe it to our children to get them a decent education, at least up to 12th grade. In the United States the outcomes may not be equal, but public schools need to give equal opportunity so all our children and our nation can succeed.

[Rikao4]

BS..opportunities are plentiful..
it's the desire that is lacking...
and it's so much easier to blame 'someone or something'

Rika