What is up with the 1999 996?
 

Being an ordinary guy with a ordinary paycheck the only Porsche I will every own is a (very) used one.

I know that the 996 is the red haired stepchild of the 911 family... but I actually like the body style (beauty is in the eye... blah, blah, blah... but I rally do like them!).

All the better for me! I can pick one up for a song!

But they are giving away 1999 996's... is that a lemon year for the 996?

What years did they produce the 996?

PS, purchase is a year or two away because we need to get the wife a new(er) car first.

Thanks in advance.

SmileWavy

"search this thread" is your friend! I'm not sure a 99 996 would be though.

Smaller engine too, AVOID unless it is free.

He means, "search this forum". At least that's what I think...

I had an early (Feb.98) production '99 996 and it was probably the best car I've ever owned. I've owned way over 100 cars/trucks. It had 205k miles when I sold it and had been seriously abused and neglected when I bought it as a bank repo. My engine had been replaced at some point by Porsche, many of the early 996s had defective engines and were changed-out. The engine that I was using had way over 100k miles on it and it was flawless.

The styling is subjective but like most Porsches, (most cars), they respond well to tasteful mods such as suspension/aero, etc. The overall toughness and low-maintanence durability of my 996 absolutely crushed any of the earlier Porsche products that I've owned. (And loved). I changed the Mobil 1 and filter every ~8k miles and almost never opened the hood otherwise. I've owned old Toyota PU trucks that needed more attention. It was almost eery. Took it to the track, drove it hard on the street, sat in traffic a lot w/ AC on, etc., etc... Unbelievably tough car.

YMMV.

I can personally vouch for this.
:cool:

I had one from 99 to 01. Never had a single issue with the car. I didn't put too many miles on though, cause it sat in the garage in the winter. I also had a coworker that rode in my car and decided to buy one. His never had issues either. YMMV....

I am fully aware and capable of using the "search" function... but I'm lazy. :p

I'm also aware that there are dedicated forms for the 911 and 996... but felt I would get a more interesting cross section of opinions here in OT.

I had a little more time on my lunch break and did a little research.

To answer my own question the 996 was produced from 1998 -2005 and I suppose the adage "buy the newest Porsche you can afford" holds true.

I am looking for a bargain so maybe the smalled engine is not such a bad thing... and at 296HP it sound like it would still be a fun ride.

Thanks for your replies, especially Denis... when/if the time comes I can buy a 996 with out fear of it blowing up in my face.

I was thinking the same thing. They have come down ALOT in recent months.

Tell me about it... $20K

Lets see... Honda Civic... or 996? :D

It's the new SC...

I too have been watching the 996 market and while the 993 is still my dream car, it's hard to ignore the price point of the 996... a lot of car for the money!

As a 993 guy who's been in plenty of 996's, none of them have made me even think of moving to one. I don't think I'll ever sell my 993. If I did, it would only be for a longhood. 1998 was truly the last good year for these cars.

I have three Letters for you:
"I"

"M"

"S"

followed by another word:

"failure"

Lets see. Spotty reliability, questionable styling (1/2 Boxster), difficult DIY maintenance, did I mention reliablity?. Ok, I am not going to bash the 996 but it is cheap for a reason: NOBODY WANTS ONE! Can I be more clearer. This discussion has superseded the 964 debate vs the older 911. I can't even debate that the 964 or the 996 isn't a superior car to the pre 89 911's. There are a lot of cars that don't have a Porsche crest on them that are faster. Lovers of older 911's enjoy the nuances of road feel, engine noise, lack of electronics, simplicity in design. None of which the 996 has other then its rear engined. Go get a Subaru STI that will blow rings around a 996 if performance is what you want. OK, I've said my mind. Time for another glass of vino.;)

beat that sob like a 944 and it's a whole different story, sure look pretty tho...

When I took the WRX to Streets iirc I was turning laps comparable/better than stock 996s. If you tweak them I think they get a lot quicker.

I'm thinking of more for a weekend cruiser... and a comfy fun ride for trips up the coast with the wife... stuff like that.

Subie probably is a better car for burning up the track...

Not what I am thinkin tho...

993 is probably the more visceral Porsche, would love to have one but not likely to find a low mile example for $20K

First of all, $20k would buy a really nice early 996. I sold mine for $14.5k w/ full H&R suspension including adjustable sways and new PS2s on hollow spoke 993 turbo rims. And prices have probably come down since a year ago when I sold.

Stock 996s are boring as hell, IMO, but they respond to mods really well.

89911, have you ever worked on a 996? I have and I can tell you that they are a hell of a lot easier to work on than an air-cooled 911. In fact, they're easier to work on than any vehicle I've ever worked on. Brakes, clutch and tune-ups are so easy that it's practically a joke. All Porsches are designed with racing in mind so brakes change out quickly but on the 996 it's mind-blowing. Two (2) big allen bolts and the caliper is off. Another tiny allen bolt and the rotor is off. A clutch job is an absolute piece of cake; unlike early 911s, (which are easy as well), the trans on a 996 comes out easily by itself w/o disturbing the engine, just like on a domestic RWD car. Tyson Schmidt told me that he did a 996 clutch job once in 45 minutes start to finish. (On a lift w/ a full shop, but still).

As for the "nobody wants one", they outsold any earlier 911 by a factor of 3-to-1. One of the reasons that air-cooled 911s are more precious on the used market is because "nobody wanted them" when they were new and therefore the used supply is limited. Just the opposite is the reason why used 996s are plentiful and cheap.

The 996 chassis is on a completely different realm from a Subaru. With track-oriented suspension mods and aero, it's an extremely capable car.

Denis- your car you sold was definately an outlier as far as used 996's go-

I think more than 50% of the people on this forum wanted to buy it, included myself!

Your story definitely inspires confidence in buying a 996.

Ok, I came off a bit one sided. Like a debate and I had to pick a side and defend. I am using the term "difficult" in a sense that you have a huge increase in computer management over the very early cars which is normal for the newer cars. As far as the car being race ready, didn't these 996 suffer from oil starvation at the track from lack of a dry sump? Didn't they use an entirely different engine for the GT3 base? Why? B. Anderson mentions the problems (RMS) in every issue of Excellence that reviews the early 996's as used car potentials, so I'm not exaggerating this. Seems that if you need to check if a cars engine has been replaced or significantly ovehauled before buying it, you might want to move on. I would buy a GT3 of these years though, so I am not totally anti 996.

You say that like it is a bad thing :cool:

I had a 99 Boxster which was an exceptionally enjoyable and reliable car. I drove the 99 996 also, and really liked it. I can't imagine a better car for the money. As long as the IMS seal problem has been taken care of, I can't imagine how you could go wrong with this car. Heck, at that price it would make a great daily driver and you wouldn't have to worry about it!

My wife saw this thread and gave me the ok to get one.



but I have to sell the SC and the GP to do it.





hmmmmmmmm

Whenever I see a 996 on the road, I cant get the movie "Cars" out of my mind. IMO, they need a body kit and some different wheels.

Don't insult the SC! :D

Even so, I would buy a 996 after the price bottoms out. A nice SC will pretty much hold its value. I am not as sure about the 996.

Two people have referred to IMS failure. What is that? I thought it was rear main seal.

Intermediate shaft. A search of this site will yield plenty of reading material.

I know a bunch of guys with a 996, or similar-era Boxster. None of them have any issues with their cars. One of the guys is an instructor for PCA events and drives the piss out of his car. On our local track, you could get behind him and you wouldn't see which way he went...

For those that think the early cars were bulletproof, let me remind you of rust, and poor case sealants (cars up to about the mid-70's) exploding airboxes, exploding clutches and pulled head studs (SC era) broken case bolts and bad valve guides (Carrera 3.2 era and early cars, for the valve guides) electronic problems (964) plugged air ports (993) twin-mass flywheel problems (various) A/C systems and stereos that were useless (most cars up to the 996) etc., etc., etc.

Pick your favorite era and it had problems. Not all cars were affected by a given problem, just like not all 996s will have bad seals, or whatever. These things should be judged case by case, one car at a time.

JR

My 2000 996 has 102,000 miles on it. I've driven 65,000 of those miles in the last 4 1/2 years. It has been the most reliable car I have ever owned. It's been tracked about half a dozen times on a very fast track out in the desert, sits in rush hour traffic idling (tough on any car), has been autocrossed a few times, and yet it has had exactly one issue - an voltage regulator on the alternator failed. That can happen to any car.

I've had many of the most reliable cars out there and yet this one tops them all. It is also super easy to work on, as mentioned.

Great car! :D

The earlier, (air-cooled), cars actually had and have a lot more maintenance and repair issues than the 996/997. That said, an air-cooled car that is properly sorted is absolutely unbreakable. Porsche did not get its reputation from nothing. They made their bones in endurance racing and were just unbeatable because they don't break.

The RMS issue on 996 cars is a big nothing. Catastrophic failures are extremely rare, (about as common as they are on any other Porsche), most "failures" result in oil drips in the garage and it's an easy fix. (See my above post about removing 996 transmissions). My car did not leak a drop, anywhere. I did have a breather apparatus fail, (common fault it turned out), that resulted in oil getting in intake. Not a huge job, ~$100 part.

The IMS issue is THE issue and it's potentially catastrophic. It is not a seal but rather a bearing, (w/ a seal), if it fails it can take the intermediate shaft with it. This is part of the variable cam timing/cam drive system and it's bad news when they fail. I do not know what the actual frequency of failures was/is but Porsche beefed-up that bearing at some point. There is a guy who has designed a stronger bearing and carrier that completely eliminates this fault, it was in the beta stage when I sold my car. Our founder, Wayne, knows more about this guy and his product.

The oil starvation issue was slightly over-blown. There was a potential for oil starvation in stock 996s with racing slicks only in racing or track situations. (If you were really fast). On street tires at the track, no problem. On the street, impossible to occur. There is an extremely easy and cheap factory fix that involves installing the later (997 part#) lower sump cover w/ better baffles. You can then run racing rubber and let Cort Wagner or Tyson Schmidt do a ringer lap at big Willow in your car w/o frying the motor in turn 8 @ 140 mph. There are an absolutely huge number of great drivers doing club racing in 996s and Boxsters around the country and the world. They are phenomenal cars and real Porsches down to the lug nuts, regardless of what you think of the styling. :cool:

I treated mine exactly the same w/ same results. Every couple months, I'd open the rear hood and say, "yup, the engine is still there", then close it up. :D

Didn't even have to open hood to check oil. The little dash gauge was dead-nuts reliable.

I didn't even think it was ugly. :cool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1269194678.jpg

There is a nice 996 over on Rennlist right now for $20k. Engine has been replaced by Porsche under warranty at 52,000. Car looked very nice, At 20K or little less it makes for an attractive daily driver. Not the most stellar looking car but for that kind of money. Would be interesting:cool:

Not sure where you guys are seeing the "dirt cheap" 996s, but a quick craigslist scan shows plenty of Boxsters down below $10K. It is the 914...

Don't know what your definition of "dirt cheap" is but here is your answer: (Only numbers in green are relevant):

EDIT: Check out the early 996 turbo prices

http://motors.completed.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?Make=Porsche&Model=911&Body%2520Type=Coupe& Transmission=Manual&Model%2520Year=2004%7C2003%7C2 002%7C2001%7C2000%7C1999&LH_Complete=1&_dmpt=US_Ca rs_Trucks&_fln=1&_flso=0&_fpos=90005&_fspt=0&_myi= 1999-2004&_pcats=6013%2C6001%2C6000&_qfkw=1&_sop=Year29 fc5d_ASC&_trksid=p4506.c0.m283&_rdc=1

Yes, but eBay has to be the worst place to get top dollar for a car. Lot's of people, myself included, wouldn't buy a car on ebay, even if we used your money.

Carry on,

JR

JR I would like for you to explain your hatred of eBay.... Just not good enough for you rich boys?


We have bought several vehicles off ebay with no incident.... My 944 included....

For every person with *eBay phobia* like you, there are about 10 million, (yes 10 million), who don't share the affliction. It is the largest vehicle marketplace in the world by a wide margin and the only place, (other than dealer/wholesale auctions), where you can tell what items actually sold for. You have to factor in the percentage of incompleted sales, etc., but it's not hard to get a feel for real world values are if you know how to read it.

And eBay is the absolute best place to get top dollar for a car, if it's actually worth top dollar. Not many are, other than in their owner's wet dreams.

eBay brings up a lot of fear in people who cannot figure out how it works, (a surprising number of people here, for instance), it is of course an online auction. And long-distance purchases can be dicey under any circumstances. I've traveled far to pick-up vehicles won on eBay only to find them misrepresented, for sure. (And did not complete the deal). I stick mostly to local or close-by stuff these days.

And of course, as the experts here will tell you, there's nothing but crap on eBay. Check out this POS:

BMW : M3 : eBay Motors (item 320502763822 end time Mar-22-10 21:47:01 PDT)

For those of you still paying attention, let me say that over the last year I have purchased several hundred things from auctions all over the world. They have their place. And, I have been doing this since online auctions began, so I think I have it figured out. However, once you have played around in the deep end of the collector car market for a while, you'll find that the truly exceptional cars never make it to the market. They trade hands in a fairly small circle of buyers. The cars just below that are better sold one-on-one, as there is not much opportunity to do any due diligence in an auction environment. I'll spend more money on something I can see in person, examine thoroughly and drive, than I will on something I can only see in a 800x600 photoshopped digital picture, from 2,000 miles away. There may be people that blow their last dollar on an eBay auction but I'll guarantee you that experienced collectors prefer to deal in cars the old-fashioned way.

One last thing. An auction result can often be vastly higher than market price, if you get two idiots trying to outdo each other. That has more to do with stupidity, than the relative worth of something.

JR

PS. to Sid. Get burned a few times by a deadbeat seller, experience first-hand eBay's astonishingly inneffective dispute resolution process, get hosed by Paypal and then report back to me.