Help me identify this shotgun please

911mnypt · 11-11-2009, 03:58 PM

I was rummaging through my grandparents cellar and found this shotgun. My uncle told me that it was my great grandfathers and possibly a 16 gauge. Any idea on its make?

Danny_Ocean · 11-11-2009, 03:59 PM

Any markings?

911mnypt · 11-11-2009, 04:03 PM

none at all...I checked everywhere.

Danny_Ocean · 11-11-2009, 04:07 PM

Hmm...might have to disassemble a little to see them.

There must be a C&R weapons appraiser somewhere in Sacto.

911mnypt · 11-11-2009, 05:23 PM

Unfortunately I left the gun in Grandma's cellar back in PA...I may have to have my uncle ship it on out...

Danny_Ocean · 11-11-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911mnypt

Unfortunately I left the gun in Grandma's cellar back in PA...I may have to have my uncle ship it on out...

Better be sure it's not on the "Calif. Banned/Unapproved Weapons" list!

HardDrive · 11-11-2009, 05:52 PM

Please PM me if you have any notion of selling it. Love that deer carving in the stock.

on2wheels52 · on2wheels52's Garage

Perhaps made in Belgium?
Jim

ben parrish · 11-11-2009, 06:18 PM

Get in touch with Tabs...quiet knowledgeable on "spoons".

the stock is beautiful. German perhaps?

dhrcr911s · dhrcr911s's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911mnypt

Unfortunately I left the gun in Grandma's cellar back in PA...I may have to have my uncle ship it on out...

Caution shipping it.. Guns and works of art are a double wammy if lost..

jriera · 11-11-2009, 07:20 PM

No luck doing an image search on TinEye ... sorry

Joeaksa · 11-11-2009, 07:50 PM

Any chance the grandparents are from Europe, Germany perhaps? Sure looks like some I have seen while living there...

Danny_Ocean · 11-11-2009, 07:59 PM

Here's a list of links/websites for antique shotgun identification & valuation. Might keep you busy for awhile:

Shotguns and more Shotguns! ShotgunWorld.com is Your Best Source for Shotgun Information

RPKESQ · 11-11-2009, 08:07 PM

Have you looked under the barrel breeches? A percussion muzzle-loading shotgun, if proofed, will have the proof stamps under the barrel breeches. You will need to drive out the barrel wedge (careful! most are captive and only go far enough to release the barrels.
Another place to look is on the inside surface of the lock plates. You will need to remove the locks to check that out (no prying!). Often the lock maker was a specialist and signed his work, we can trace this to country of origin.

If there are no proof marks of any kind, then our search is narrowed down. It was either made in the US (the US has no National proof laws, so any proof was up to the manufactures. That is one of two major reasons truly fine shotguns were never made in the US).

The other (more) probable origin of this gun is Belgium. Stylistically this gun's carving and engraving is Northern European. When Europe realized that America did not have proof laws and America had an insatiable demand for firearms, several countries flooded the American market with cheap, non-proofed firearms. Most came from Belgium and Spain, a few from England.

Since each and every firearm had to pass proof in European countries (and the manufactures had to pay the government for this testing) finding a market that did not require proofed guns was an immediate savings to the maker.

If you need further help or information, just let me know.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Bet it is a Belgian gun made by Wilmot...or simliar The stag's head is common on those guns. Do a search for other examples.

Dueller · 11-11-2009, 08:59 PM

Beautiful piece of art/family heirloom...I'd be curious about the story behind it.

targa911S · 11-12-2009, 04:05 AM

Like Frenchy said.

911mnypt · 11-12-2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Any chance the grandparents are from Europe, Germany perhaps? Sure looks like some I have seen while living there...

Yes, my great grandfather was from Italy and came to the states in his early 20's...perhaps its a Beretta?

I may take the side plates off like RPKESQ suggested to do and see what we find.

Joeaksa · 11-12-2009, 05:35 AM

If its European, it will have proof stamps.

Was in Germany years ago and transferred a .45 Smith & Wesson to civilian registration. You know, that small company Smith and Wesson? The Germans did not care and since the weapon had not been imported through their system into the country (guess the US Military did not know what they were doing either!) I had to pay to have it tested. They then shot the gun one time and hammered a ugly large German proof stamp on the side of the receiver.

They are big on things like this, so it will be there somewhere if it was made in Europe.

targa911S · 05:40 AM

Be very careful when you do that. Locks get stuck over the years with oil and grime. Do not pry it out. Use the cross bolt/screw that runs from one lock to the other, and gently tap on the bolt/screw to loosen the opposite lock. Get one out and then tap from the opposite side to remove the second lock.

Those locks looked pinned in at the back. I assume the screw is behind the hammer. If the whole thing is pinned together, being inexperienced as you are, I would just leave it be, clean it up good, and hang it over the mantel. Orange oil and some 0000 wool should do nicely.

I think you stand a good chance of finding proof markings on the barrel flats or water table when you remove the barrels. My guess is Belgian.