what is the general consensus on getting the proper construction permits?
 

targas' thread has me thinking. doing home improvement/repairs..do you call "the man", and get it all done legit? or weekend work..i mean.."what work?"

Depends on the level of skill required for the project and whether or not the work is visible from the street...

depends on whether you need to turn off your main gas line or pull the power at the pole.
Steve

$25K bathroom reno, all new plumbing and electric, no permit. All it is is a reason to raise your property taxes. Make sure your electrician and plumber know what they're doing and you're good.

I think unlicensed/non permit upgrades truly hit when a home goes up for sale. Until then, enjoy that illegal rec room. SmileWavy

That is pretty much the test I use.

as an architect, i can't tell people to do work without a permit, technically you would need a plumbing and electrical permit, & maybe building if you are moving any bearing walls BUT!!!!! that being said, It's just a way for the city to impose a TAX on you for improving your home.
Make sure your electrician & plumber are LICENSED and know you won't be pulling permits, sometimes they will give you a break on the price because they don't have to deal with inspectors, but you are at the peril if anything goes wrong, or if the city finds out & red tags you, then you would be hit with penalties & fines... so go for it, but i didn't tell you that, right

I would get a permit for any addition to the structure, the electrical system, or the plumbing system. I would get a permit for finishing an unfinished basement. I would get a permit for any outside project, if the local building dept. would expect one to be issued, e.g. adding a deck. I wouldn't get a permit to move an electrical circuit or plumbing within a room. I also wouldn't get one to move, modify, or remove a non-load-bearing wall.

When I had my roof done, the city charged me $60 for a roofing permit. The permit (which I had to put in my window) also meant the city would pick up whatever roofing material I dragged to the curb. 18,000 lbs. of shingles and felt, or roughly two dumptrucks full. I'd say I got my money's worth.

The city did change the law in December (I finished my roof in September) raise the price of the permits, plus now each load the front-end loader picks up costs $50.

The permit + pickup fees would have run me around $600 had I done the roof this year.

that could best be answered by the "clown non attorney" neighbor of mine.


here i think anything over 1500 or 2000 bucks demands PERMITS.


and if ya dont have permits................well lets just say they make your life HELL! because they can and they will...........and they will enjoy it.


REDTAG=HELL!


bottom line...........its worth it. but reality is it PROTECTS YOU from slimeball POS worthless lowlife SCUM contractors.


so look at it this way:

your team= you and ZEO(zoning enforcement ossifer) AGAINST


their team=cheap ass cut corners contractor.

and that = a well built/quality/SAFE finished product,whatever the hell it is.

Keep in mind a permit and inspection will protect you, the homeowner, and give you legal recourse should anything go wrong.

A couple cases in point:
1. My elderly neighbor had an illegal deck put on in back by a kid through another neighbor's reference. It "looked good" from next door, but then I got to examine it up close.
-The deck was freakin 4 inches above the interior floor level(obvious tripping hazard), so all the dirt and leaves would collect and blow inside.
-Who knows if there was a proper vapor barrier and flashing installed, and whether everything will start rotting and/or leaking?
-Who knows if the posts were set at least 4ft. below grade, or if they will start heaving and rip out her sill plate with everything attached to it?

2. I bought my house a few years ago without knowing much about construction.
The previous owner had put on an addition, and there was some paperwork back and fourth with the City griping about a few inches varience in footprint. The cracking didn't show until the next year.
-As it turns out, the structural design was completely wrong, so it will cost me big dinero to fix. Wasn't planning on that.
-If the City thinks fixing this is an "upgrade" and a reason to raise my taxes, they would be wrong. This will be fixing their mistakes. After I checked, there was no final inspection done.

Most subs like plumbers and electricians will pull thier own permits with the city. They don't want to get caught doing nonpermitted work. In my little City a permit is the better way to go. Some places charge you 2x or 3x the fee if you are caught not permited.

Around here, the outsourced garbage collectors get credit for providing tips to code enforcement is they see construction debris in your waste.

Some of this **** is just BS. I have a full permit pulled on everything done on the house I am working on. It is my own and plan to flip it and make some money. It is a complete rebuilt from the inside out. I am just about done beside the yard work, or landscapeif you want to call it that and exterior painting. final's been signed off 3-4 weeks ago. I have a lovely new inspector around the area who decided to drop by uninvited. I think because he saw us painting. He demanded a permit for the rear door and made noise about shutting the job down. I replaced a rotted french door. WTF.

I always pull permits for all my jobs. It is just not worth it. My own house, not really except for the big stuff like a Kitchen remod. I built a 500sq' Ipe deck without it. It is so over built, you could could drive a tractor on it. The money I save on permits and engineering paid for more then 3/4 of the materials. Still they might not allow me to build it. When I sell, I just have to disclose it.

Bingo!! It will come back to bite you eventually. I have customers that want me to do work without a permit. I flat out refuse. #1, I'm not risking my license. #2 It's for their own protection.
I'm not saying Ive done work on my own house without a permit. But yes its also a big money maker for the town, and allot of times its totally unnecessary

i could have saved $2000 if i had gone with these other contractors. the one i chose, was completely professional. they are pulling the permit, calling for city inspection..and buttoning it up. i figured a trench going down the side of my yard would raise a few eyebrows.

i dont know how much the PO used the city's inspectors. from here on out, i think i will.

thanks for the various inputs.

all it takes is pissing somejuan off and the next thang ya know.................you have a new friend called an "INSPECTOR". and then it gets SPENDY!


after what i have seen here(we call it "blow and go") building.................man you are STOOPID NOT to pull permits.


wanna bet the the homes(NBC NEWS) on the east coast built with HAZMAT material in the drywall from china were not permitted!!!!

Just adding as another architect that if it has a new foundation, you for sure need to get yourself a permit.

Also anything which affects the property line like a fence (post with foundation) very good idea to get a survey and permit.

i was just being a smart azz - i would never condone doing work without a permit, especially anything structural, but i have also made good money doing post red tag violation work.
I have seen nice room additions (250K+) that have been torn down because of zoning violations that could not be resolved, due to non-permitted work
It is a total nightmare getting caught with non-permitted work & you would have trouble when you went to sell the house. As i did state, you are on the hook if anything went wrong, like an electrical fire, or construction defects, but that also applies if you go "owner/builder" and pull the permits yourself, but that's a topic for another post.

thats crazy! the public agency i work for could never have their S together that much.

If something goes really wrong- why give the insurance company an out. When big money is at play something like an addition built without permits is just enough to void a policy.

The whole concept of a "Permit" equates to "Permission" which I don't think I need from anyone for my property. That said, yes, I get permits for most things. Helps when selling a house, cause the buying agent will ask. Doesn't really protect you if the buyer sues you, like the POS LAWYER who bought my last house. He sued me for everything that I disclosed, was identified in the home inspection, and even things that I have him money for in escrow. I swore I'd fight him to the death, but this guy had done it twice before and knew every angle. I ended up giving the POS LAWYER money in the end to go away. One day, I'll be in a restaurant and see the POS LAWYER and he'll choke of what he's shoving down his throat and I'll be the only person in the place who knows how to aid a choking victim, and I'll laugh as he chokes to death.

Generally speaking, in my area, any work done within the existing structure and done by the owner does not require a permit. But we don't have the permit nazis many other states/localities have. If you're adding to the structure you need a permit.

My Home Reno's: no permits; ever. But no insurance breaches either, my plumbers and electricians ALWAYS pull their permits, period.

Commercial Projects: Always a permit, no exception.

Yep.

Assume everything more extensive than one-for-one bona-fide maintenance (i.e. replacing cabinet doors, lightbulbs, etc.) needs a permit. Call the city and save yourself problems later. Don't be stupid or cheap - they're starting to get very aggressive about this kind of stuff. Yes, it costs money but what in construction doesn't?

"Renovation" = depends on local AHJ. You need to check. A lot of times it's not required but better to have that in writing from them.

I did a project in a small town in rural Alabama years ago and the inspector was the Chief of Police. He had no clue what he was looking at. He checked that the plumber and electrican had journeyman cards and signed off on everything at the final inspection.

The local govt. "permission" is based on the idea that screwing up certain constructions can cause an electrical fire that spreads to other people's houses and requires City Fire Dept.; plumbing screw-ups can contaminate everyone's drinking water or cause a nasty flood; & etc.

There are often substantial fines for not getting a required permit. It is a good idea to find out if a permit is required. Here, non-structural work is usually non-permitted, with the obvious exceptions of electrical & plumbing.

Yes, they do look at permits to see if they can raise your property taxes - that's "fair", right? I got hit big time for this - they are required to re-asses on the VALUE of the improvements, but instead they used the COST - which was much greater. I sued & forced them to back off on part of it. For some reason, they don't "like" me anymore...

If you are doing a renovation - say a kitchen, then it is likely legal to just get permits for the required sub-components of the job. The cost shown on the permit would be much less and you might escape a lot of the tax increase. But check to be certain before going ahead - attorneys can help you - they are, in essence, hired guns.

Here in Joisey, you need a fuchin permit for every little thing you do.

Need to replace sheetrock on more than 1/2 of one wall? permit

Replace more than one kitchen cabinet? permit.

Want to put paneling in a room? permit.

sounds like you replace things one at a time over there...

The test I use is this:

Do you have chickens running around in your yard?

If you answered yes, you don't need no permit.

a good general guide, but will not work in Orygun as even us urbain sorphistercates has done got checkens raht here in the big city

Gardening in Portland Oregon | Growing Gardens Digs at the Root of Hunger - Chickens

Even then (at time of home sale) what difference does it make? (I mean that cynically.) When I went house shopping last year, a fair number of properties had additions that were non-permitted. They just disclosed it while you were walking through the property, and that was it. It's not in the official square footage. It's not taxed. What negative consequence comes about not having permitted rec rooms/offices/maids quarters/etc?

Not everyone knows how to properly add on to the electrical system or plumbing. Further, not everyone knows how to make/keep a basement dry. If licensed contractors can screw these things up, and some of them do, imagine homeowners that think all they need to do is ask advice from some schmoe at Home Depot.

Well - and this is just a guess - it's the seller that loses out in a situation like this as they would not be able to include the non-permit room in the overall square footage of the house, which is one of the basis in a property's asking price. This happened to a house nearby ours, where because a room was non-permitted the seller had to lower the price by a few $ thousand.

This too. Inspectors are a good thing. You wouldn't want to turn on your rec room lights and have your whole house catch fire, or even a wire burn, get the FD to come out, and have them find out the rec room was not inspected.

David, your example (I think) is fairly rare. Does anyone actually confirm square footage? Certainly not either of the real estate agents involved. They just list whatever the previous sale or city has listed. And even if the square footage gets amended, what difference does that make? So you pay $400 per sq ft instead of $450. What's the house worth to the pool of buyers? The house is listed at $800K. Do you want it or not?

As I mentioned, I ask these questions cynically. The house we purchased last year was listed at 2100 sq ft. That's what was on the listing. That's what was on Zillow. That's what was on the previous sale from 2 years earlier. As my wife walked through, she commented that the house felt smaller than 2100 sq ft. We had looked at close to 100 homes by then, so we certainly had a feel for size. So I took out a measuring tape, sized up a few of the main rooms (i.e. left out closets and small nooks)...and came up with an estimate closer to 1800 sq ft.

Interestingly, after more digging I finally found that confirmed on propertyshark.com. Eventually when we received our city tax assessment, that's what they had listed, as well. But at the end of the day, do you want the house at this price, or not?

The City of San Antonio sums it up in short.
That said, I have never heard of anyone actually getting a permit to repair or replace fixtures or broken pipes. DIY work is completely under the radar.

What the city and county is really concerned about is septic tank work in order to protect the water supply. That sort of work they absolutely sign off and follow up with.

If you are going to do something that will alter the measurements of the home VS. what's on record then you are asking for it.

Come the day you want to sell or refinance the house and the appraiser determines there is a gross discrepancy between what you have and what's on record then they will not give you credit for the additions, but dock you on what it costs to restore the house to what it should be unless you turn up permits to prove otherwise.

It makes for a mess if you're trying to sell, that's for sure. No lender will recognize or even lend on a place that has been tattooed like that on an appraisal.

rjp

As a general rule (if there is one), if you hire licensed electricians and plumbers to do minor work (adding some outlets and switched light fixtures, moving a sink a few feet, replacing a 1/2" gas line with a 3/4" line - that's what I'm thinking about) and they pull electrical and plumbing permits, but you don't go as far as getting a full building permit, will the city send an inspector to sign off on the work and give you trouble for not getting the building permit? This would be for a kitchen remodel that is just replacing cabinets, replacing appliances, adding some outlets and lights, and moving a sink, paint, counters. No walls being moved, all work inside the house, no change to footprint or footage.

How about if you have the electrician install a larger electrical panel and a 240v outlet, and have the plumber replace the house's supply line from the street?

I know individual cities do things differently, just wondered if there is a typical, usual practice.