Anyone try to save a house that should be torn down?
 

I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying a house that should really be torn down.

I love the location and it's a big lot with plenty of room for a shop or two.

The problem is the house. It was built in 1964 and it's kind of a strange layout that would require the kitchen and all the bathrooms to be remodeled along with a few walls moved.

It would also need new HVAC and a roof and probably a lot of wiring and plumbing.

The price is very good, but not low enough for me to afford to tear down the house and build a new one.

I've tackled some major projects in my time, but I'm worried this might be more than I can chew.

Anyone been down this road?

I bought a house built in 1924 that with the exception of some lime green shag carpet that had been added in the 60's had not been touched. It had sat vacant for the 5 years before I bought it when the granddaughter of the original owner died.

But it was very solid (brick english tudor) built in an era when a 2x4 was a 2x4. It had space heaters and window units and completely dated kitchen/baths, very small closets, crumbling plaster walls, etc. I did most of the grunt work myself and on the cheap including gutting the kitchen, building my own cabinets (with the help of my then FIL architect). Farmed out central heat and air which was my biggest expense.

Very rewarding on many levels...but lots of surprises both good (beautiful hardwood floors underneath that shag carpet) and bad (old aluminum wiring on ceramic posts. Ultimately it paid off (sold in our divorce after 7 years and doubled our investment.

Bottom line...always something to do or fix.

That house sounds more like a minor remodel project not a tear down. If the foundation is good and the walls and roof is straight without water damage then you might be alright. I would get a good home inspection for sure. The plus is the initial purchase price could get you in and then you do the other projects as time and money dictates, roof excluded.

My house is an old 1880's farm house which has many issues. I went to do some tuck pointing on the fieldstone foundation only to find out the 130 year mortar turned into sand. I ended up jacking up the house and rebuilding the field stone wall by hand. The other walls I am sure are about the same. I need to get an action plan together for that.

Speedy:)

Can you live there as is for 1-2 yrs? Could you live there while the work is being done? Can you the work yourself? Do you have time/want to do the work? If not I would pass.

I think just about every house built between 2004 and 2008 should be torn down, but that's just me. ;)

As has been said above - old houses (very old ones, pre-WW2) have a lot of character and charm. They were built to last and while they certainly will require work, they're (IMHO) a lot more rewarding than selling onesself into indentured servitude for a plastic modern McMansion.

The obvious issues are energy efficiency and certain types of hazardous materials (lead-based paint, asbestos, now there's a lot of chatter about PCBs, etc.)

I hope someday to pick up an older place and restore it - probably just as financially foolish as fixing up old clunker Porsches, but it's something I believe one does out of love, not a desire to be financially logical.

Be careful what you're getting into and think long and hard about it. I guarantee an older place will require you to throw a lot of money into it (and labor). If you don't like pulling wire, reworking plumbing, getting filthy in crawl spaces and scratched to hell by old rusty nails, I'd probably not do it. But if you (like me) are the kind of person that's willing to go through hell and lots of effort because of irrational passion, then it might be the kind of thing you'll find enjoyment (sick and twisted, masochistic enjoyment, but enjoyment nonetheless) in doing.

Best of luck - if you go this road, definitely keep us posted. I love seeing/hearing stories of nice older buildings restored. I enjoy historic preservation work but hardly ever get a chance to get involved with it anymore. Everyone wants to remodel crappy 15-year buildings that were built 30 years ago these days but as long as they keep throwing good money after bad, it's paying my bills...

I have done some extensive renos myself on a 50s bungalow.

If I had to do it again, I would have torn it down to the floor deck and started over. Too much time involved, but the result is a very livable floor plan. I enjoyed doing the work and only jobbed out some things I didn't want to do.

My plan would be to live in the house I'm in now for a year or two while fixing up the other house.

I just finished a kitchen remodel on my current house which included removing a load bearing wall and installing a beam and column. I built new cherry cabinets for the kitchen remodel and I doubled the size of my current garage. So I have a bit of experience with big projects, but this would be my last project times 10.

I would probably sub out a lot of stuff like sheet rock, painting and tile and just handle the critical stuff myself like plumbing, wiring, and moving walls. I would also have someone else build all the cabinets, I might finish them though.

[QUOTE=125shifter;5287486]My plan would be to live in the house I'm in now for a year or two while fixing up the other house.

IQUOTE]

Said the guy who told me "every project I ever start takes at least two years" :D

Are you going to move the pool ?? LOL

Why would you sub out sheet rock, painting and tile? They are all easy, and get easier with practice. Don't think about the whole project at once- start with a small bathroom for practice and confidence and work from there. Given what you said you did with the kitchen, sounds like this is very doable for you. Ask folks a lot of questions, and good some books, and you will be in good shape. 1964 isn't that old for a house, so you can work with most of the plumbing and wiring you have. I have done one this way, and am starting another. Almost as rewarding as working on old Porsches!

David, and to think I am sweating over buying a scooter!

You'll do fine.

I bought a meth house in so cal and basically had to take it down to bare walls inside, it gave me a great opportunity to install insulation, house speakers, internet, updated phone and automation capabilities. Like Chuck said I started in the small bathroom in the center of the house. I ended up re doing that bathroom when I finished the rest of the house because I got a lot better at all that stuff and was not happy with it and my new skills. Good luck!

My speed at finishing projects is my biggest fear. On the other hand I wouldn't have all the distractions that I have when I'm home.

The house has a pool, but I don't know if it's salvagable.

Hey I'm heading down a week from tomorrow will be in on Sunday afternoon.. Is Helmethead's car ready for a thrashing ??

Don't buy a fagio.....



If its what you want to do... You can do the work... and you get a decent deal... Why not? Its only a little time and a lot of money.......

-If you consider yourself somewhat-experienced with projects but think that this one might be more than you can "chew", then my advice would be to just tear it down. This will raise your costs about $5k, plus or minus, but then you will be able to build the house you want and not have to live in a place that will invariably wind up a collection of compromises.

N

I'm in the middle of a 1927 bungalow right now. We couldn't afford to live someplace else and tear it down, so we're renovating room by room as we have money. Windows and AC are definitely the biggest expenses, but electrical, plumbing, and redoing the attic are no walk in the park either.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd either get an even older house, or a much newer one. 80 years old just isn't old enough to really get respect on a renovation. 70 years from now, it'll be a cool old house, but only if we're really meticulous on our work, and we really can't afford to do it that way. Renovation is just such an awful lot of work, and it's really expensive to pay other people to do it.

In your situation ... it was built in the 60's. You won't get any respect for a period-correct 1960's house until 2110, which means the renovation just isn't worth it. If I was you, I'd bulldoze that sucker into a hole and start over. Sorry.

Dan

You mentioned it needs a new roof, but you don't say you think it's been damaged structurally because of that. Those are the type of houses that should be torn down.

Have it checked for termite damage.

I just went by and looked at it with a contractor buddy. He said it's doable, but a major project. He recommended pulling all the sheet rock, rewire, replumb, move walls, and then sheet rock.

I could end up with a decent floor plan. The main concerns are it would only have 8' ceilings in most of the house, and two rooms have been added to the back of the house and the roof over the additions look to be about 2/12 pitch.

He started it a few days ago and it started first try!!!

I think the Motec needs a little more tuning before he really gets on it hard.

You might be able to tear it down to the platform floor or ground slab and use the existing footprint/foundation as a starting point.

I ran into a problem in a poor soil area on a lake when doing this. We ended up putting about $20,000 of helical piers under the foundation to support the second floor addition.

Also the existing home may not meet current setbacks, which could lead to ZBA approval process.

Have the foundation checked out, you do not want to get into fixing serious cracks, adding new foundation tile drains, water proofing and foundation insulation.

You may want to pay a few hundred bucks to have a structural engineer or architect look at the foundation with you.

Older houses may not have sheetrock - they may have plaster which is far more durable but also much harder to change around. It's tough stuff to work with.

As the owner of a meth house, even with restoration it should be reported on the Real Estate sales contract disclosure when the house is sold.

Banks selling meth houses on forclosure or short sales do not have to disclose it as a meth house and usually declare condition as unknown.

Living in a meth house, even with wallboard, floors and the house gutted is not safe for your health. If they were cooking meth it is even worse.

Many web sites on hazards, what to look for and test kits.

Example:
My Meth Lab Home Story | Meth Lab Homes

John_AZ

I'm not worried about it being meth house, but the foundation is another story.

There were two additions to the house so there are two cold joints on the foundation. My contractor buddy also noticed two corners of the house that have dropped. So there would need to be some foundation work.

Here's the house:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1271015736.jpg

Worth looking at although one nice thing about older houses is there's a de facto reliability factor - if the thing has stood up through weather/natural events/etc. for the last however-many years, it's probably reasonable. That said, you do need to look at potentially degraded items (timber = termites, rot, metal = corrosion/rust, concrete/mortar = spalling/deterioration) and account for them as necessary.

Properly prepared concrete will last forever. Usually if it fails it's because it was prepared poorly, reinforcing was placed too close to the surface (inadequate cover) or cracks were allowed to form which then become places for plants or other organic things to get in and start destroying it, on top of another potential place for decay of reinforcing to start).

I rennovated a smal l(about 1200 sq ft) cute 1927 home a couple of years ago. I had owned it for about 10 years and had only paid $40k for it, but it had a nice lot and had been owned by family members and, as thus, had sentimental value. I had planned on doing a lot of the work myself, but was transferred before I could. When I began rennovation, it was valued at about $80K. My contractor ( a Pelican) was fantastic, but after spending about $150k; refinishing the floors (replacing some), new roof, new light fixtures, new bath tile, new siding, new wiring (including alarm, cable and internet), new plumbing, new insulation, new windows, new doors, new stairs, two new decks, a new porch with a swing, new bathroom fixtures, new appliances, new cabinets, a new slab poured and a new heat pump and A/C...plus some grading, tree removal and landscaping...it looked great and was worth about $180K. I like how the house came out and because of the high quality of the work, I will eventually come out fine...but I would have been much better of financially to sell the house to someone else and buy one in better condition. It is rented out now, and rented quickly at a premium,, but unless you can do an awful lot of the work yourself, it is a big, expensive project that may not return as much as you expect. Make sure of your motivations (work of love or just business) andfree time/energy.

I hope you got the lime green shag carpet in the divorce. It would really suck to lose that.

I had to pass on the house.

They wanted $190K for the house, but I figured I could get it for $150K.

Then reality set in. It would take me years to complete the remodel during which time I would have two house notes, taxes, insurance, etc.

But I couldn't get a loan for the house in this condition anyway. If I paid cash, then I'd have no money for the remodel and I don't want to tap into my 401 or IRA.

I did find a mortgage company willing to loan me $375K for the house and for the expense of someone else doing the remodel so it would be complete in 12 months, but then I'd have $375K in house that was not exactly what I want.

I even considered buying it, tearing it down, and then just holding the property until I was ready to build a new house, but that would use up all my available cash.

Oh well :(

And just when I hit enter on this last post, the owner called me.

She said they're probably going to turn it over to the bank as a short sell. She said they really like us and wish they could sell it to us. She said they'd go $125K. Hmmm?

Perfect. Buy it and get Gregrrrr to help with the re-model http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/536724-how-effed-up-my-house-picture-heavy.html

damn, that home has nice curb appeal! 125k?

tough call. my home is a shack. it needs about as much work as you described.

tear out lath/plaster, re rock.
new wood floors, insulate, finish electrical, remodel bathroom and kitchen. my foundation sagged in a few places, i would probably just level the subfloor.

fun stuff.
keep us posted.

I'm fixing up a 50's ranch. Some of the other features of older homes is that they tend to sit on bigger lots and are located more centrally than newer homes. The photo you posted shows a nice yard and mature landscaping.

Renovations are a line in the sand, but at $125K that looks like a possible. Do as much of the work as you can. If you can gut it and work on it unoccupied, you can update the floorplan to make it a more modern house and something that works well for you.

Wow. At 125K that sounds like it would be neat to fix up.

Buy it or i am

That's the big draw. A 3,880 sqft house right in the middle of 0.84 acre lot. There's a million dollar house across the street and a five million dollar house a few doors down on the water.

If I could get a bank to loan me the $125K and let me do the work I would, but the only loan I've found is a refurbishment loan for $375K.

Another funny thing, the owner is a nice little 68 old year old woman, but most of our conversations are by text messages like teenagers :D.

Buy it! The old advice is to buy the worst house in the best neighborhood. Nowhere to go but up.

I just sent a bunch of pics to the lender I've been talking to. Now she understands why I want it, especially at this price. Stay tuned...

Once the bank figures out what that property is "worth" your in there! :D

WOW.... reading Jim's post was like looking in a mirror.
My wife & I bought a 1919 farmhouse, built by the farmer....not a real carpenter. We started "at the bottom", & have worked our way up. The joke of a "foundation", that was done in the 1930's, had not interfered in any way with the houses determination to settle right down hard against the ground. Thank God, the floors were clear heart old growth Redwood, or there would have been NO house left by 2004 when we bought it from the Farmer's daughter that had been born in it in 1924. All the 'indoor' plumbing had been added on in the late 1920's & NEVER upgraded. All wiring was knob & tube copper with some scary add on romex from the 60's. NO HVAC, just a fireplace & an old coal type heater (also worked with wood). Weird 2x3 (2x6's ripped in half) lath & plaster(with horse hair) walls, NO insulation OR conceptualization of headers, loads, stud or joist spacing etc etc, like I said, the Farmer built it.
We tunneled under with 2 tunnels (@ 1/3 & 2/3 across) & used steel gerders to lift it up so I could build & pour a real foundation. We then replaced one outside wall at a time with 2x6, insulation & modern wiring....replaced the old (but interesting) windows with similar Marvin dual glaze....reframed & built the new 10 in 12 roof right over the old 6 in 12, then sawzalled it up tho 'old' one & took it to the dump. BUT WAIT....we have lived in it while doing all this (& still married to boot)...
WHY (are we sadists??) 3 of the most beautiful acres with remnants of old 1890's apple orchard & old barn & orig. 'homestead cabin (falling down, don't go in there...), 10 min from the beach yet a world away tucked in the hills.
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION....you can build the house, but you can't 'build' the location...If you love the land buy it, houses are temporary in the grand scheme of things
GOOD LUCK