Los Angeles Target Stabbings...another argument FOR CCW's...
 

Glad/lucky an armed off-duty deputy was there. Too bad the citizens aren't allowed to be armed. This whack-nut would have lasted about 3 secs. here...(and don't you just love the last line of the story? I'm soooo glad the deputy had permission to have a gun in the store... :rolleyes: )

Woman Stabs 4 in Southern Calif. Target Store

AP - Monday, May 03, 2010 5:59:52 PM

A woman who stabbed and wounded four people in a busy Target store Monday afternoon was arrested when an off-duty sheriff's deputy pulled his gun and ordered the woman to the ground as screaming shoppers ran from the building, authorities said.

Layla Trawick used a butcher's knife and a carving knife to attack the victims, using both blades at the same time -- one in each hand, like in the movie "Psycho," sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore said

"She was literally walking up and down the aisles slashing people," he said.

A mother holding her baby was stabbed in the neck and was taken to the hospital, where she was in stable condition, Whitmore said. The baby was unhurt and all four victims were expected to survive.

One witness said she was shopping for a Mother's Day card when she heard someone screaming, "There is no witness protection program!" as chaos broke out in the store.

"I don't know what it means but she was yelling that repeatedly and at the top of her lungs," said Katy Winn, a freelance photographer from West Hollywood. "I think I heard (the deputy) telling her to drop to the floor. That's when things got really chaotic and started falling over."

Winn said she dropped her basket and dashed across the store to the women's section, where she hid behind the clothing racks.

"From the moment the screaming started it was about five minutes. But it felt longer than that," she said.

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy Clay Grant Jr., said he was picking up paper towels and other items when people around him started running and screaming.

Grant, 26, grabbed his duty weapon, identified himself as a sheriff's deputy and ordered the woman to drop the knives, he said. She ran away and he followed her from aisle to aisle.

Grant was wearing a white T-shirt, camouflage shorts and running shoes so several shoppers mistook him for a gunman, adding to the sense of panic.

Grant followed Trawick from aisle to aisle, until she turned and waved the knives at him from above her head, he said.

But he decided not to shoot because he didn't feel his life was in jeopardy, he said. For a second time, he ordered her to drop the knives and finally she complied.

"I was more concerned about the knife, more than what she was saying," Grant said. "Her facial expression was someone who was lost, confused, didn't know exactly where they were."

Trawick was arrested with the help of private security guards and held on $1 million bail on suspicion of attempted murder. Investigators were trying to determine whether the 34-year-old Antioch woman got the knives in the store.

Speaking to reporters at a sheriff's station later, Grant was modest.

"I don't feel like I'm a hero, I just do what I'm trained to do," he said.

Whitmore said surveillance video cameras captured the stabbings, but the tape hasn't been released.

"If he wasn't there, who knows? Someone would be dead right now," Mankini said. "He had no communication with outside law enforcement. He's just some guy doing his shopping. We're pretty proud of him."

Mankini said Grant, a five-year veteran of the department, was authorized to have a weapon in the store.

I'd have hurled boxes of Tide at her.

is that the tar-jay on santa monica and la brea?

"Deputies with the sheriff's West Hollywood station responded after numerous 911 calls reported a gunman at the Target at La Brea Avenue and Santa Monica Boulevard, Sgt. Josh Mankini said."

Before or after she stabbed your wife/mom/child?

Good lord, if that had happened in my local target, she'd look like swiss cheese. I've seen more barely concealed guns in that store than I can count, my own included.

It was hot today. Walked around open carry, including a busy restaurant for lunch, then a trip to the dump and to a high-end gift shop with the g/f. Not an eyebrow was raised.

But, my point is...in a state where concealed carry is permitted and widely advertised, an incident like this might not have happened at all, had the looney known the consequences. She certainly wasn't kooky enough to not surrender after seeing a gun pointed at her.

We don't have OC here sadly. That said, I have unintentionally OC'd a few times and I never pay much mind to truly concealing. Nobody ever says a word. Most probably assume I'm a LEO of some form. People make a lot of assumptions based on my appearance.

I was waiting in line to get into a court room the other day (witnessed a stupid accident, only person decent enough to stop). The rent-a-cop running the metal detector told me "Attorneys don't have to wait in line here" I decided not to correct him because most of the people waiting had some rather interesting body odors.

I'll give the cop credit. If i saw that i would have shot first and asked questions later.

Jeez, the one woman was holding a baby that got slashed. In critical condition.

That's the worrisome thing. Someone trying to save lives getting mistaken for a bad guy. I'm glad the deputy succeeded in stopping that woman.

Am I the only one who thinks that it is a little worrisome that ordinary citizens carrying weapons are almost encouraged to whip out their guns and start blazing if they feel the need? There was an incident here last year (?) where a couple was arguing in a parking lot of strip mall and a security guard at a jewelry store came running out and shot them (here's the story - I actually found it - WBIR.com | Knoxville, TN | Updated: Vinson Guard Service lawyer apologizes for shooting).

Anyway, this guy was a security guard and presumably should have at least had some training, etc. These people were only arguing and didn't even threaten the safety of the guard or anyone around them. What's to prevent an ordinary citizen from "taking matters into their own hands" and shooting folks first and asking questions later? And before you jump all over me, I'm not saying that there aren't situations where disabling a dangerous person is the absolute right thing to do (and I would do it, too), but in the case of these folks in the article above - they were just arguing and the guy felt the need to shoot them? I can see some well-meaning, but trigger-happy CCW person doing the same thing in the heat of the moment. Is the idea of CCW self protection or that + protection of those around you?

She would not last a nano-second here in AZ.

and THAT KIDDIES is WHY RIGHT THIS VERY INSTANT.....................i have my new in box unfired HK .45 COMPACT TACTICAL ON MY SIDE(serpa holster)............LOADED!


later today i am getting the trijicon night sights installed, already got the HK threaded barrel protector on it yesterday.


am ordering the HK UTL MK II rail light with remote switch for it. cheapest i found was $177.00(list $250) that will compliment it while i am sleeping for things that go bump in the night.



every so often certain events set me OFF BIG TIME! the murder of a girl 400yds from my house here, and the murder of my next door neighbor in downey calif not 3 months earlier back in the late 80's got me off my ass to get my azccw.


the others days events down off of I-8, with the deputy being shot and the helos being shot at by LOS ILLEGALS prompted me to go off the deep end with buying the UBEREST OF HK HANDGUNS. and the fact i gave my robarred HK USPC 9mm to my younger son after he got his azccw.


i thought about the MATCH .45 and the ELITE .45 but i wanted something concealable as hell and SAFE AS HELL carrying cocked and locked with (1) in the pipe. after watching the USP video and watching those goofy ass germans("ya know those germans make really good stuff"shamwow vince) drop the damn USP off a 3 story building landing on the hammer,with the safety off, and a LIVE ROUND in the pipe,convinced the hell out of me, to buy one. the best one was when they(goofy germans) SQUIBBED a round ON PURPOSE and then fired another round barely bulging the barrel and the veapon was still functional. WOW IM IMPRESSED!



and i like the fact i can SUPPRESS IT here in the future.




so the bottomline...............if ya break into my house at night..............all yer gonna see is a BLINDING BAZZILLION POWER LIGHT IN YER FACE and PFFFFFFFFT,when the federal hydrashock stops ya DEAD IN YER TRACKS!

In my experience, the vast majority of people who carry concealed hope desperately that they never have to use their weapon.

The guy I worry about is the guy who wants to be a cop, has applied to every law enforcement jurisdiction around, and won't get hired because he is trigger-happy, so his next move is to become a security guard.

I have loads of respect for law enforcement. I put Security Guard somewhere below aardvark in terms of brain activity.

Most CCW people also know that even if they are involved in a justified self-defense shooting, a civil lawsuit will probably be looming in their near future. Kill a bad guy, and bad guy's family will sue. Even if Mr. CCW wins at every step, it would still be a gruelling, expensive experience.

Most (99+%) CCW people keep it concealed. I recently found out a good friend I've had for years carries. I had no idea.

I bet the people that had not yet been stabbed are glad there was someone in the store with a pistol.

after carrying concealed for years ya get damn good at NOT PRINTING! XXL shirts for me. and you dress for success. ie. if im going out dressed up real purdy i will dress accordingly and choose one of my .380's(better than nothing).


i have more pistols than days in the weeks with various holster rigs(holster fetish), and btwn shoulder carry and waist carry and pocket carry ya get real good at it.



now we were looking at wedding bands this weekend. lots of high end jewelery stores. the one we bought the engagement ring at the guy there wears a suit and packs a glock. jewelery stores scare the hell out of me. they have a high propensity of being robbed. of all the stores we went to, all of them allowed but one(jareds) concealed carry meaning no sign to the contrary.



jareds will never get a penny of my bizzness. they can go to hell, cuz i aint going in a jewelery store unarmed EVER!



i also forgot to mention in the previous post how the national bank of az was ROBBED last week in our lil one horsey town! so btwn the I-8 incident and the northland bank incident, i have had it with crime.

Correct and it could have been A LOT worse.

Remember Luby's in Texas years ago. ONE person with a CCW would have taken care of people like this, yet the liberals want us to react like sheep and wait for the police to arrive.

yeah thats why the high end jewelery store owner packs a GLOCK. he knows very well that the police aint gonna be there when he needs them most.


ya know we have had (3) banks robbed here over the past couple of years. all within maybe a 1.5 mile radius.

harris bank
national bank of arizona
credit union inside albertsons.



the kicker to this is MCSO sits right in the median daily across from the northland bank handing out 26mph tickets in a 25mph zone. what a JOKE!

AZ. sounds like a horribly fk'ed up place. Everyone armed to the teeth yet tons of crime, the world's worst climate and terrain, worst ass hole cops, politicians and citizens so stupid that they pass a law that is god's gift to the illegal immigrant movement, etc., et al...

Denis,

You are totally correct. Its a terrible place, only criminals and snakes/scorpions here, so STAY AWAY.

Was just out this morning putzing with the pool and solar system and noticed that a black widow spider decided to build a nest out back. Damm, cannot believe that I let her live... must be slipping on the "kill everything in sight, let God sort it out!" meter. :)

Joe A

[QUOTE=speeder;5332110]AZ. sounds like a horribly fk'ed up place. Everyone armed to the teeth yet tons of crime, the world's worst climate and terrain, worst ass hole cops, politicians and citizens so stupid that they pass a law that is god's gift to the illegal immigrant movement, etc., et al...[/QU


"tons of crime" yep because we have TONS O ILLEGALS!



but actually overall general crime stats are down for the state. all im saying is the areas that previously were not crime prone are experiencing their share.



me? i dont leave home without a spoon any more PERIOD!


there is ALWAYS ONE OR SEVERAL STRATEGICALLY PLACED AT HOME LOADED!


i live alone SO I CAN!




joe get yerself a can of wd-40 and a lighter and toast dat black widder(widow).



just saw my first LIVE SNAKE for the year on my property. we fer sure RACIALLY PROFILED HIM,ASKED HIM FOR ID and he complied stating he was from the family of BULL SNAKE-IUS MAXIMUS and he was here LEGALLY.


i checked his ID by looking at his tail and upon noticing no rattles...........i let him pass. constant vigilance.

Actually, in retrospect, I'd have hurled a couple of cans of Alpo at her. Yes, always before they stab the wife/mom, child. In fact, hurl the cans of Alpo when she's just starting to think about pulling out the knife, whether you know she has a knife or not. Sort of like the thought police.

I am really starting to wonder about people in general. You are in Target, woman pulls a knife, and all you can think of to do is run around screaming? Jesus H. Christ, how about running to the sporting goods department and get an aluminum baseball bat and beat the crap out of her with it.

See... this is where people need to smarten up and think on their toes.

Imagine what MacGyver would have done in this situation.

I'm thinking bottle of bleach thrown in her eyes would have put a stop to it even quicker than pulling a gun.

I miss the good old days when the guy behind the counter had a 12 gauge pump and racked a shell into it when things got interesting. Sorta stops most people in their tracks... and would have worked very well here.

Bar that, every store in the old days had a baseball bat or baton like Kurt mentioned behind the counter and that works very well.

i'm in that store all the time. intensely liberal area. west hollywood meets fairfax meets regular hollywood. recently yuppified. the old brass rail gun store was right across the street.

the locals will never be cool with ccw.

baseball bats are MESSY! oooooooooohhhhhh gross!



nothing better than "stand off " veapon systems.



i think the wall mart greeter should be armed, with bandeleros across his/her chest.



funny how you very seldom see or hear of gun stores being robbed during bizzness hours! think about that statement for a minute. cuz everyjuans ARMED!

I was assuming that I was in the dog food aisle, not sporting goods. Point being I'd keep my distance and hurl whatever hard item I could. If I was in the underwear section, not sure what I'd throw.

Do you guys really thing that someone who is psychologically disturbed is going to be deterred by CCW? While she dropped the knives at gunpoint, evidently it took awhile for her to do it - and that is while staring at the guns. Someone like that will not have the aforethought to run "what if" scenarios. They are not well in the head.

Just think we should be clear about what CCW can and can't accomplish. While in this case is could have slowed the carnage, no way it would serve as a deterrent before the fact.

Funny you should say that. There was a widely publicized gun store robbery in MN. a few years back where at least one employee was shot dead at point-blank range just to get everyone's attention. No one else behind the counter did schit after that. The element of surprise and "getting the drop" on someone is everything with guns. There are things that they can do for you in defensive situations and things they cannot. They can simply get you killed if you do not know the difference. A lot of ignorant gun people on this board which I extrapolate to the general armed population.

My Dad sentenced the robbers in that case when he was a judge. Minnesota unfortunately does not have a death penalty so the most he could give them was life in prison w/o the possibility of parole. :cool:

Thank goodness this didn't happen in a Costco.

Yeah, they have BIG cans of Alpo at Costco.

Firearms are just tools. Like any tool the quality of the user is everything. I am glad that most people do not carry as the general expertise of the majority of the posters on this BBS is frightening.

I have used a firearm as a civilian in self defense, I agree with the freedom to own and use firearms, but just as most drivers would wad up a GT2 RS within hours of ownership, most would seriously f*ck up if allowed to carry everywhere.

The only thing that saves us from mass carnage is most people are too scared to participate in any kind of an altercation. Self preservation rules trump Rambo wantabees everytime.

I do not need a firearm to defend myself. I have other tools in my toolbox. Situational awareness will save your ass far more often than a firearm. I carry only when I put myself into a high risk situation.

Yep! Though I like natural weapons.

I mean, who needs a gun when you can take a perp out with a rack of lamb? It's simple: do the deed, put the meat back, and let someone else buy it, take the weapon home, and eat the evidence. Easy-pleasy, preferably with roasted potatoes and a nice red. :D

Believe that a simple Tazer would have woken her up and stopped it immediately.

I agree...I don't carry, never have...but I understand those that do.

Observe, orient, decide, act.

until you have been shot at(2 mags let loose) in a campground FILLED WITH PEOPLE outside camp verde,az........................................i dont think you will ever go anywhere unarmed. EVAR!


me i will never go simple brain dead camping in a campground filled with people EVAR AGAIN! it was my buddies wifey's idea not mine.


not my idea of peace and quiet.


and i will never go camping w/out at least having my M-14 socom w/me. it kind of tips the balance if needed.

and of course i was EXPECTING TO BE SHOT AT! thats why i just brought my .45!


BE PREPARED............. a lil ol boy scout trick.



and lo and behold...................a gun store WAS ROBBED IN TUCSON TODAY! holy ned thats takes some HUGE HUEVOS! 2 guys got away after firing shots. tucson po po's on the lookout.


they were probably white irish catholics w/out ID. buddah knows we dont want to racial profile here cuz al sharptons circus arrives monyana on CINCO DE DRINKO! what timing HUH?

I dunno how many of you have been hit in the dome by a fast pitch canned food item before... but if the person has a good arm, you're not getting your bearings back too quickly.

ya know if you were in the lawn and garden section......................you could probably fend off a knife wielding attacker with say maybe a broom, a hoe, a shovel, an axe.


if ya were in the auto section you could throw mobil 1 syn oil in their eyes or anti freeze.



all of these are great ideas.................................I'LL WATCH!

And if this happened at the matress store..... PILLOW FIGHT!!