Traffic Tickets as Source of Revenue
 

Six Hidden Government Revenue Streams Page 2 of 2 - Forbes.com

statistically, this looks pretty solid

they don't call them "armed revenue collectors" without cause...

If I go from one side of our little town to the other, I can see 7 or 8 police cars in a 15 minute span. I'll see 2 police cars on the same small street pass each other. They are like ants on sugar here.

As of 2007, the town had an estimated population of 64,707

Almost three-quarters of the cases that went through Mount Pleasant's municipal court in 2009 involve driving-related offenses, with officers handing out more than 500 tickets for speeding less than 10 mph over the speed limit, a look at the town's records shows.

In 2009, Mount Pleasant's municipal court handled 15,956 cases, records show, of which 5,582 were for speeding. The court handled 297 driving under the influence cases and 1,594 careless driving tickets.

Almost 1 in 12 got a ticket here...:rolleyes:

I just got dinged $347 for a simple 50 in a 35. This fee is ridiculous! You can bet I'm fighting this ticket!

Michael

Hey Michael!

Whats your strategy for fighting it? I got picked out of a group of cars and hit with a 84/55! total BS.. the CHP officer even pulled the " i smell alcohol" comment, it was almost laughable how canned it sounded. This was at 1pm on a Thursday btw.. yeah, probable cause...(green)

He nearly ran into the back of our vehicle, looking at his cruiser through the rear view mirror I couldn't even see the hood of his cruiser. Way to close!

I figure I'll request the records of calibration for his radar and view the dash video? it should show i was mid pack in a group of cars...

i could use some suggestions

hope it works for you, pm me with details if you don't want to post

cheers, Jason

There is a little town that is totally surrounded by OKC called Forrest Park. It is notorious as town that is supported by traffic tickets. The judge is paid by the town and he is only there to rubber stamp the ticket.

They will give speeding tickets for 2 MPH over. If you don’t come to a complete stop, and wait a second or two you will get a rolling stop ticket. If you don’t use your turn signals properly you will get a ticket. I really don’t have a problem with that. No one ever speeds through town. They understand there is no float. I drive through Forrest Park twice a month. The speed limit is 35 and I go 32. I come to complete stops, shift into neutral, and then shift into 1st and proceed. I never have a problem because I don’t break their laws.

This makes no sense.:confused:

No speeders = no revenue.

I am sure it make for a ****ty little experience. And imagine the place is no safer. That is the ostensible reason behind these laws anyway..:rolleyes:

I am sure the Founding Fathers would be proud! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1273842439.jpg

The key to ending all of this is to demand that our right to due process in traffic court be restored. In Washington state traffic courts you:

Have no right to representation.
Have no right to a jury trial.
Have no right to appeal.
Face a standard of evidence known as "preponderance", which has a precise legal meaning - 51% of the available evidence points one way or another. It's meant to be a standard used in civil cases, wherein a judge must decide a dispute between two citizens. It was never meant as an evidence standard to be used in a trial where the state brings charges against a citizen.

On top of that, neither the officer nor the prosecutor need be present. The judge serves as prosecutor, and the written report from the officer serves as evidence. 51%, by the way. It's a no-win situation. Our only hope in this state is to hire a lawyer specializing in traffic citations and have them seek a dismissal on some technicality. If it goes to trial based on "evidence", you lose.

The restoration of due process would go a long ways towards ending the abuse of this system. In America, the state is ostensibly not allowed to bring charges, try, and convict a citizen of anything, no matter how minor, without running its case past our fellow citizens - a jury. The state must make its case to us, not to itself. The profit motive has clearly corrupted this particular venue of our legal system. It's time we all write our representatives and demand a restoration of due process in traffic court.

In Denver a speeding ticket, they usually give it for a little less than actual, usually knocking it down a money/points bracket.

Then, automatically, if you sign the ticket and send in the fine within 21 days, the fine and points are further reduced by about half.

They get the money and don't have the courts all clogged up and officers losing a half day of ticket writing.

I'm OK with that. I WAS speeding, afterall.

This is a sore spot for me because myself, wife, father, best friend and a couple of coworkers have all been stopped on the interstate in my area in the last few weeks. There is a lot of construction and they use the fuzzy zones between the beginning and end of construction to trap people and write mass amounts of speeding tickets. It is also well known that the counties are short on budget and have already cut back law enforcement agencies. So to prevent further cutbacks these agencies are trying to become a profit center, but here is the problem.

There are not enough hours in the day for officers to write enough tickets to cover the cost of themselves and the system. The more tickets they write the more it costs the tax payers and if they would just cut back in the departments this wouldn't be a problem. However I get we don't want to lay anyone off, but this strategy is not helping.

So think about the cost of employing one officer and then the process of the ticket. Each officer gets a salary, pension and health care from the county/state. Then they need a car with all the stuff in it. The car needs gas, insurance, maintenance, and probably regular accident repair. In the car are computers, guns, laser and radar guns, as well as many other special tools officers need. Add to this the cost of dispatch, cell phone, wi-fi and probably some other services and the cost keeps going up. Last we have to account for the useless time the taxpayers have to cover when the officer is eating donuts, smoking cigarettes (which they can't do in the car anymore), and generally goofing off. This alone probably costs close to 2-300K per year per officer.

I haven't yet begun to scratch the surface of the drag on the legal system. Once the ticket is written and you go to protest it we have to pay a judge, assistant DA, bailiffs, cashiers, building costs and more civil overhead. One $200 speeding ticket probably costs the taxpayer $2-400 in real costs. I am sick and tired of this abuse of our system and wish there was a way to protest it, but there isn't.

If we had no crime, and everything else was perfect then using cops for the sole purpose of generating revenue could be used. However police officers are meant to keep civil peace, stop crimes and aid in emergencies. Revenue generation is not an intended use of them. I know several cops (friends and family) and all of them are frustrated that they have been instructed to perform this duty. It is a waste of our tax dollars and should stop! We already pay taxes so why do we have to pay more on the road.

And that's why I fight every ticket I can get to the court for. I want them to lose more than they get from me. But I don't see how it's such a great loss, since all those employees are salaried and would be getting paid the same, regardless of what they did that day at work.

What if you were not?

I got stopped last year by two less than honest and scrupulous deputies while on the same motorcycle in the same area. Lo and behold, for once in my life, I truly was not speeding on the darn thing. Didn't bother these two in the least. They wrote me for 16 over (conveniently one mph into the next higher fine bracket) and took the rather callous attitude of "tell it to the judge". I felt completely helpless. There is absolutely no way to fight something like this, and these two ass clowns knew it. Their chesshire cat grins made me want to knock their teeth out through the backs of their necks.

Some of you may remember my thread about that incident. I went ape-shyte ballistic on those two, heaping untold verbal abuse upon them. I wrote a nasty letter to both our County Sheriff and our County Executive. My letter resulted in two internal affairs deputies calling me, but otherwise nothing came of it. They know they are untouchable.

We have no defense if they decide to lie, or if one of them makes an honest mistake. There are no checks and balances. There needs to be some. Due process... they should have to prove their allegations. Not to themselves, but to the rest of us. Guaran-farking-teed they would find other ways to spend their time. Right now it's just too darn easy. Too darn profitable.

Interesting subject.

The short answer is: Just don't speed.

It would be fun to know the ACTUAL percentage of cited drivers that were not speeding.
I'd say it's very low.

I've been cited a couple times in the last 26 years.
I was ALWAYS speeding.

In fact, I don't know anyone that has been falsely accused of speeding.
I think it's rare, given that speeding is so common.

The speed limit in front of my place, out here in the country, just dropped from 55 to 45.
They have hung bright colored streamers from the new signs to get driver's attention, starting about a month ago.
Yesterday they had one of those, "your speed is", radar trailers in place.

The CHPs are going to have a field day.
I'm OK with that, because people drive by at 100-135 mph all the time ( every day ).

I'll try to get a shot a CHP using my driveway as a speed trap.
( I gave them permission and encourage it ) :)


KT

Dude,, 100-135 in NAPA ?? I'm calling BS!!! I'm totally with you on residential areas where kids and dogs are around.. My issue is speed traps where the limit may be 55-65 but it could be safe to go 90 (like across the desert)..

What are you doing with all of the krispy cream wrappers those guys throw out their windows onto your lawn??

Jeff - you got one thing out of it (besides the extra $$ Rick mentions):

those 2 have a file now - if they get several more complaints, then there will be some serious oversight on them

I know it isn't fair, or adequate.

No doubt. Maybe faster...

I live on one of the longest roads in Napa with no stop signs.
The stretch I live on is along a section that will support flat footed driving for about 1.4 miles.
( Don't ask me how I know )

Two lane, solid double-yellow, with blind driveways.
It's pretty insane.

Maybe I'll shoot some hidden video...


KT

err that's kind of a lot over the limit - nearly 50%! I don't see how you could complain about that one.

I agree... The same system is here in CA pertaining "due process". CA has a whole class of "moving violations" and infractions that because they are classed less than misdemeanors, do not require a jury trial or indictment.

This needs to change. Too many just "pay the fine" instead of fighting it when they should. Too many meaning those who were wrongly cited.

Based on all this, I'm really confident the police in Arizona (everyone's new favorite state) will faithfully follow the new policy on illegal immigrants and not pull anyone over without good cause.

If it says 70, I go 65. If it says 35, I go 30. Lots and lots of cops all over the place, money grabbers that they are, but hey, don't speed and don't pay.

I have been. It's an incredibly helpless, infuriating feeling.

I really don't give a rat's ass if it's rare. One is too many. There simply must be checks and balances; today, there are none. That flies in the very face of the citizen/authority relationship upon which our justice system is founded.

I'm sick and flippin' tired of this "wink, wink; it's about public safety" bullshyte. There are places where it absolutely makes sense, where it really is a public safety issue, to be very strict about speed. I will never begrudge strict enforcement (nor will I ever speed) in such areas. But to set up speed traps in areas where there is no safety concern, and people speed because there is no reason not to exceed an arbitrarily set, artificially low limit? That has to stop. We need to raise hell until it does. It's gone too far, and the motivations are no longer valid or sincere.

I rode the very same route today on the Harley. On the very same road on which I was stopped yesterday, I got "stuck" behind a school bus. It was doing 50 mph. In a 35. I saw no reason why it shouldn't be. "Public safety" my ass...

I'm sorry you have been cited without cause.
I'd be mad, too.

Sometimes I drive faster than the posted speed limit.
If I get a ticket, I'm the one to blame, right?

I do my best not to speed, but sometimes my mind wanders and I find my self driving a safe speed for the conditions, that happens to be over the limit.

Happy motoring!
I save my speed for the track.


KT

..with your left turn signal on too? :)

I agree with some of the above generalizations. MOST people who are nabbed are indeed speeding. The court (judge) will be more than happy to explain that the speed limit sign has that litle word: LIMIT (in Canada we have the word MAXIMUM on our speed signs). So you are free to travel up to this limit, and in many circumstances a little beyond it. So yes, you may be travelling not much faster than the guy in the lane beside you, but if he is already 10 over you are 11 over now.

What does bug me are the setups where speed limit reduces, eg school zones or construction, entering city limits. I have been nabbed while I was decelerating for a school zone. They had the gun set up aiming right at the sign that said school zone. Speed changes from 50km/h to 30km/h and I didn't get down to 30km/h till about 50' past the sign. I even saw the cop before I entered the zone. Warning for 40 in a 30 zone, but his point was that I should have slowed down before the new speed zone. I think a little discretion on the part of the individual officers is required.

Here you will see a sudden change in speed limits. I know of several spots where the limit had been reduced from 70 KPH (which it had been for longer than I have been driving) to 50 KPH. They will set up a temporary sign for a few weeks advertising the speed limit, but people who only use the route occasionally get nailed and ticketed with demerit points. Then they set up the photo radar and pull in the cash after that.
Sad but effective way of raising funds.

Well, I have, back in 88 or 89, we were coming back from a friends place who hosted a Memorial day, and this home is located on the Inter Coastal water way, at the time there wasn't much around them, so we spent part of the day shooting skeet and target shooting. Well, having a full arsenal of Spoons & ammo in the back hatch of the 928S was good reason to obey the speed limit, at to it that being a holiday weekend knowing the Police would be out in force. So here we are, heading down the highway, obeying the speed limit, when a white 300Z comes up to me, tries to get me to play (I didn't), them speeds off, a few minutes later a cop pulls up behind me with flashing lights. The officers comes up to the car, ask me to get out, my girlfriend at the time is also wondering why, as it was one of the few times I was doing the posted speed. The cop goes off about that I have been doing 80 & 90s MPH, cutting in & out of traffic & that he had been trying to catch me since the beach (about 20 miles):eek:
I try to tell him that he had the wrong car, but didn't really want to push it since I had a military issue AR15, a Street Sweeper, Mini 14, shot gun, assorted hand guns, & lots & lots of ammo just under the tinted windows, all were legal, but just seems that it would have been a major hassle if he saw my arsenal... I took the ticket and was pissed...

On the tickets being a cash cow, read this..

Of course, when the State figured out that there would be less money, one of the 1st things they did was raise the traffic fines..

Of course I keep my left turn signal on ALL the time. When the guy passes me going 75, I say fine. Then when I again pass him talking to the cop, I smile and use that money to buy more stuff for my cars. It works great.