Pocket Pistol Calibers

[cashflyer]

My wife wants a pocket pistol.
I have no life insurance that I know of, so I approve.

She recently fired a Ruger LCP in .380 and was unhappy with the recoil.

Is the .25acp or .32acp worth considering, or should she just "get used" to the .380?


I know Federal makes a "Low Recoil" round, but then what's the difference between a low-powered .380 and a smaller caliber....?

[Rot 911]

Have her try out something like the S&W .38 special airweight.

[legion]

I was going to say...all small semi-autos I've fired have been crap. My Glock 26 is the smallest gun I've shot that isn't total garbage (okay, so it's actually pretty good).

Wheel guns are another issue. There are lots of small good ones. Just don't get an odd (hard to find) caliber. That pretty much limits you to .38 special or .22LR.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

Have her try out something like the S&W .38 special airweight.

15oz for the Model 638 vs 9.5oz for the LCP.
A little extra weight, a little larger frame, and a more powerful round.
I know extra weight gives less felt recoil, but with the more powerful round is the 638 is any different?

[red-beard]

The LCP is a very light pistol (9.4 oz unloaded). My Keltec P3AT is even lighter at 8.8 unloaded. She might want to try a Keltec P32 in .32ACP. The .38 Spl will be more recoil than the LCP.

Another thing to consider is a Sig P232, since it weighs over 17oz loaded. The felt recoil will be quite a bit less than the LCP.

Oh, and if you do go the .32ACP route, stick with FMJ rounds. Hollowpoints tend to rimlock in 32ACP.

[cashflyer]

I have a PPK that she could carry - that would be similar to the P232.
But I think she's really hung up on the small size and weight of the LCP.

I knew the Kel-Tec was available in the .32 but wasn't sure about the round's recoil or effectiveness. The gun store guy said that it would be so similar that he felt it would be a horizontal move; to just stick with the .380 and tell her to get used to it.

Kurt's suggestion of a revolver made me do some Googling for reviews by females carrying revolvers. It was not very fruitful, but I did wind up with this image.

[red-beard]

Nope, the .32 ACP is definitely less felt recoil.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Will she be carrying it in her pocket? Or purse? Or in a belt holster?

The bigger the bullet, the better. No two ways around it. On the other hand, shot placement is key and a hit with a .32 is better than a miss with a .380 (or a .50 BMG, for that matter).

The smallest I'll carry is a .380. Have your wife check out the SIG P238. It's a small gun that is very soft shooting.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

The heavier the pistol the less the recoil to a point.

.38 is a good round. Semi-autos can jam/misfire/etc far easier than revolvers. I've had women try both out and almost all of them prefer the revolver as it is more straight forward and easier to understand. Less moving parts. If she is more confortable with it then she is more likely to use it.

That said, I am more impressed with the .22 MAG than the .25 or .32. They all have their place.

[Zeke]

Well, if you're gonna start that game....



How would you like to have something of this caliber on your shooting team??

[red-beard]

You can always get the pistol made for her!

GoldenLoki.com





Pistol placement is key

[fred cook]

My wife has both a .38 and a Kel Tec P32, likes them both but for different reasons. The revolver is much simpler to operate, no slide to work, etc. but the Kel Tec will disappear into a pocket more easily. When she carries the .38 she loads 3 rds of shot shells and 2 jacketed hollow points. At snubbie range that combo should ruin just about anybody's day! The Kel Tec has proven to be reliable with Winchester Silver Tip hollow point ammo so that is what it stays loaded with. The P32 also hold 7 rds vs 6 for the same gun in .380. For her, recoil is not a big issue, but working the slide on an auto pistol is. So, we went to a gun show and she handled lots of different small auto pistols until she found one that she felt comfortable with. Turned out to be the P32. She has fire other pistols and revolvers in calibers up to .44 mag and .45 acp without recoil problems. It is just that guns in those calibers are too large for the use intended.Good luck with your search!!

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

Have her try out something like the S&W .38 special airweight.

THIS IS WRONG! any airweight titanium scandium unobtanium transfers recoil. a HEAVIER WEIGHT GUN HAS LESS RECOIL!


then add a heavier/SLOWER BULLET and recoil is LESS!


ask me how i KNOW!



went down this road and the SAME applies to bigger calibers ie. the .44 magnum ie. smiths 329PD in scandium. more mega ouchies than a stainless frame due to it being scandium framed.



best bet for womens since i have bean down this long long road is slap a browning buckmark or ruger 22/45 in their hands and grab a six pak and let them shoot yer empties with 500 rds say on sat. and another 500 rds on sunday.



yes thats right a whole entire 1000 rounds of .22 in a weekend.



when they start(start cracking cold juans while observing you will need it) they WILL BE RETARDS! after splaining SAFETY and loading mags and aiming and breathing you may feel you need another 6 pak. splain to them calmly how to eject a FTF or FTE blah blah.


explain in yer sternest DADDY TONE "never to place a finger on trigger until ready to VAPORIZE whats in front of them FOREVER!" if they dont grab this concept then YELLING IS STRONGLY ACCEPTABLE and at that point throw cans into bed of truck, grab gun, clear pipe, and tell them CLASS IS OVER until ya get more BEER that they are paying for!



i did this. and it does work. they go from TOTAL FLATLANDER RETARDS to fairly good shooters IF they listen. big "IF" there .



anyway on day 2 of this horse-poo at about 600 rd count and her loading mags, racking round,taking off safety and shooting at "close bad evil beer cans" , "medium close bad evil beer cans", and "far bad evil beer cans" she got the hang of it to the point i was glassing surrounding hills for coyotes and not paying no heed.


then you get a stainless frame anything. why ? cuz it doesnt throw as much recoil. go buy some real SLOW HEAVY weight rounds or some LOW RECOIL rds if found in whatever caliber yer using. and then do it all over agin until you feel comfortable.


dont whatever you do take her to a range. the rangemaster will have heart failure and throw ya both out cuz shes being A RETARD! they (women) have a hard time listening to lovers/boyfriends/and believe it or not husbands when it comes to this stuff. its kind of like teaching scuba diving or snow skiing to women. at 1st.................yer gonna ask yer self why in hells name did i offer????



and if you look at velocity of rounds, you will notice there is not a hell of alot of difference btwn .380's,9mm's, or .38 specials. ALL ITTY BITTY MOUSE GUNS SNAP cuz they are ITTY BITTY FRAMES.



a stainless "J" frame smith with SOME LOW RECOIL ROUNDS is gonna be the best there is outside of a .22.



i actually feel wayy more comfortable with my lil senorita blasting a bad guy to hell with a .22! she can write her name in his FOREHEAD now.


but it took a hell of alot of sessions out in the dezert. the beer drinking was fun i might add.


today............is a model 60 stainless 1 7/8" barrel .357 day for me. dont even know its there. and yes these shoot SLOW POKE .38 specials also. and it goes bang everytime and is INSANE ACCURATE!

[rouxroux]

Listen to ODU!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides a Ruger Mk II (which is a tack-driver), I'd use one of these two mouse dispatchers if you wanna' feed 'em to get accurate....

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by fred cook

My wife has both a .38 and a Kel Tec P32, likes them both but for different reasons. The revolver is much simpler to operate, no slide to work, etc. but the Kel Tec will disappear into a pocket more easily. When she carries the .38 she loads 3 rds of shot shells and 2 jacketed hollow points. At snubbie range that combo should ruin just about anybody's day! The Kel Tec has proven to be reliable with Winchester Silver Tip hollow point ammo so that is what it stays loaded with. The P32 also hold 7 rds vs 6 for the same gun in .380. For her, recoil is not a big issue, but working the slide on an auto pistol is. So, we went to a gun show and she handled lots of different small auto pistols until she found one that she felt comfortable with. Turned out to be the P32. She has fire other pistols and revolvers in calibers up to .44 mag and .45 acp without recoil problems. It is just that guns in those calibers are too large for the use intended.Good luck with your search!!

She needs to be very careful with those hollowpoints. Rimlock is no joke. Also, the power of .32ACP is pretty low and you don't get a lot of penetration with an expanding hollowpoint. From the FBI ballastic tests, the .32ACP hollowpoint do not get 12" of penetration, which is what is needed to get to the vitals that make a real stop.

Here is the gruesome reading

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

[RPKESQ]

The first decision is semi-auto or revolver.

Many women do not posses the hand (pinch) strength to easily cycle a semi-auto slide.

On the other hand many women do not have the reach (hand/finger size) in order to easily pull a double-action revolver trigger.

Caliber choice is decidedly secondary in priority.

You can mitigate recoil sensations by utilizing soft rubber grips or different shaped grips (if applicable to the make and model) and lower power rounds (being able to hit the target because of much practice due to tolerated recoil levels is always better than a hotter load or caliber). Obviously, revolvers can handle the widest spread on loads (from wax bullets powered by just a primer for in home practice, to very hot loads with the most effective bullet shapes).

Also a good gunsmith can lower and smooth the trigger pull on any good revolver. Slim grips and a rounded trigger face profile can help The new little Ruger pocket revolver has a smoother and lighter trigger-pull right out of the box , than many others.

If a semi-auto is the choice, then between the .22LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP or .380, I would want it to go "bang" with the utmost reliability to preclude the necessity of an immediate action drill. To that end the .22LR is not as reliable in both feeding or ignition.

The .25 ACP is better than nothing and the best are the little Berettas.

Between a .32 ACP and the .380 ACP are many fine guns (and some junk) that should be tried by the user. One of them will be found to be the "right" one.

How the firearm is carried is of great importance in choosing the right make/model.

Decide on this issue before pursuing this choice too far as size and weight vs. concealability (if required) and comfort will need to be addressed.

[cashflyer]

Well, here is some follow up that will answer a few questions.

She's no gun dummy, but still needs more handling time. She operates the slide on the semis without problem, and operates the revolvers fine, but she still needs to learn more about remedial action for FTF and FTE on the semis.

She has fired most of what I own, up to and including the .357 magnum.
Her absolute favorite is the Ruger MkII, has put several hundred rounds through it, and is pretty consistent.

The firearm will probably live most of it's life in her handbag, but she wants it to also be suitable for going into her pocket - thus her desire for the slim and lightweight LCP or Kel-Tec types.

Along the revolver lines, but in smaller caliber than the 638, is the Taurus 941 UltraLight. The 941UL is available in .32 Mag (really, though... wouldn't that be the same recoil as a .38spl?) and the .22 Mag. Is .22M a viable self-defense round?



(Yes, I know Taurus' reputation.... I just mention this for discussion of the gun type, not the brand/make)



I don't like the idea of the hammer snagging on clothing or the lining of the handbag... since the revolver is DA, couldn't a gunsmith remove the thumb tang? (Ah... but then how do you de-cock it?)

[ODDJOB UNO]

ya know there are guys out there like meself that have weapons training. then there are guys with very lil weapons training let alone actual shooting time. then there are professionals who charge big bucks by the hour to train someone with firearms.


it comes down to HOW BIG ARE YER HUEVOS WITH A FEEKING RETARD! and yer ability to dance damn quick away from a loaded gun when it passes yer way cuz they are STOOOPID!


i am telling ya from multiple 1st hand experiences most people DONT THINK! they talk and they blab on and on about everything but the task at hand. when teaching anyjuan about firearms thats unfamiliar EXPLAIN TO THEM JUST LIKE A MARINE DRILL SARGEANT THAT "YOU ARE GOD" and they dont do a DAMN THING WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION! i have had barrels pointed at me while they are jabbering about some such POO and the next thing they know they have 6'3 215# freight train going down their throat. trust me it aint fun nor cool to have a gun pointed at you loaded or not. thats what ya get to deal with and I IMPLORE YOU TO SET THE RULES THAT "YOU ARE GOD" and they dont fart w/out you telling them to do so.


the amount of idiots at our lokal range has skyrocketed. and yep now the flatlander retards get to watch a range safety video even before they step foot in the place. i have seen some crap that will make poo run right down yer leg too many times so therefore there is NO FEEKING AROUND AND I AM GOD! or i can be buddah or allah or whomever ya want just as LONG AS YA LISTEN AND SHUT THE HELL UP and keep the weapons barrel DOWNRANGE!



semi-autos: lots of moving parts, better know how to clear a FTF or FTE. some actually bite the web of yer hand if not held correctly. difficult for RETARDS to figure out that when you drop the magazine from weapon there still may be LIVE ROUND IN THERE! splain to them FULLY THIS CONCEPT and that there WILL BE A LIFE QUIZ! decockers somewhat of a difficult concept to grasp. going to condition red quickly from a purse is difficult with semi autos.


wheel guns: simple/effective/less moving parts/less capacity/hammerless for concealed? or buy one with a hammer? remember NO SAFETY when trigger pulled it goes BANG!



in other words ..................if ya have a drop dead good looking "keeper" thats a lil "dittzzy" i would buy the wheel gun.


if ya have a drop dead good looking "keeper" with a "brain" and somewhat mechanically inclined.............the semi auto.







0-500 rds is a very sketchy VOODOO ZONE! be EXTRA CAREFUL AND ALERT TO STOOPID POO!


500-750 rds you can unclinch yer fingers from squeezing the beer can.


750-1000 rds...............grab yer binos and glass the hills, look over every once and awhile and smile, and thank the heavens you survived, as you retain COVER AT ALL TIMES BEHIND THEM!



a pick'em up truck tailgate for all yer gear and A TABLE about 10 paces away for the (1) weapon being used EXPLAINING TO THEM THE WEAPON NEVER LEAVES THE TABLE(therefore no walking back and forth from table to tailgate).



and PLEASE EXPLAIN ALL ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A BULLET GOES OUT THE BARREL!


richochets come to mind

innocent bystanders

cars trucks houses buildings etc.

also explain that a piss ant .22 can go A MILE AND A HALF(1.5miles).


and finally the GOLDEN RULE......................ALL VEAPONS ARE "ALWAYS" LOADED!



if the individual wants to learn "qwicks draw mcgraw" fast draw techniques..........run like a mutha feeker!

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Well, here is some follow up that will answer a few questions.

She's no gun dummy, but still needs more handling time. She operates the slide on the semis without problem, and operates the revolvers fine, but she still needs to learn more about remedial action for FTF and FTE on the semis.

She has fired most of what I own, up to and including the .357 magnum.
Her absolute favorite is the Ruger MkII, has put several hundred rounds through it, and is pretty consistent.

The firearm will probably live most of it's life in her handbag, but she wants it to also be suitable for going into her pocket - thus her desire for the slim and lightweight LCP or Kel-Tec types.

Along the revolver lines, but in smaller caliber than the 638, is the Taurus 941 UltraLight. The 941UL is available in .32 Mag (really, though... wouldn't that be the same recoil as a .38spl?) and the .22 Mag. Is .22M a viable self-defense round?



(Yes, I know Taurus' reputation.... I just mention this for discussion of the gun type, not the brand/make)



I don't like the idea of the hammer snagging on clothing or the lining of the handbag... since the revolver is DA, couldn't a gunsmith remove the thumb tang? (Ah... but then how do you de-cock it?)

look at the smith and wesson concealed hammer on the "J" frames.

[Drdogface]

What I carry is a Smith Air Lite in 22WMR. Virtually no recoil, 7 shot cyl. Weighs 10 oz empty. I have Crimson Trace laser grips cuz painting a bad guy with that dot will convince them to back down now. Do not make the mistake of poo pooing the 22 WMR. It's a bad azz round.