Will drive the rental car then, need to leave something to someone you know! :)

Excellent come-back BTW!

Very nice to offer. There very well may be, plus another small welding project that I will tell you about soon. Thx. :cool:

very cool! did the opposite route (MD to CA) 6 years ago...this is gonna have some lasting memories!

Awesome thread. Thanks for sharing.

Very cool guys. If you come back through KS the beer's on me, Paul you know where I live. I might even have a spare room if I get my basement done.

Wow, I can't believe that 2 months have passed since I last posted on this thread. I've done some work on the car in that time, (a little), but mostly it's been pushed to the side because I've been busy with other things.

Now it's time to bring it back to the forefront because Paul is coming to collect it in approx. 3 weeks. Milt is coming over this week to weld in the new battery box floor, (trunk floor), which is the only rusty spot on the car. None of them escape corrosion in this spot, unless they never had a battery. The new piece arrived from NLA this week, they basically sell every part that you'd need to build one of these cars from scratch. ;)

I had been planning on pulling the engine all along to re-seal it for oil leaks. The seller of this car was deceased but his regular mechanic claimed that the engine had been "rebuilt" some time in the not too distant past. The wrench, (or more accurately shop owner), was a very nice older guy but his garage was not the right place to maintain this car. He supposedly sent the engine out to be overhauled but could not remember where,(??), and there are no records of this ever occurring in the receipts we got for the car.

There is an old saying/truism in the world of used cars and "rebuilds" which is this: if there are no records, it did not happen. Unfortunately, in this case something did happen, let's hope it wasn't Motormeister. I tore it down today and did not see any JB Weld, still haven't split the case yet, though. The car ran OK and idled fine but leaked oil from every possible crevice due to blow-by and it was a noisy motor. I brought it by one of the top 356 wrenches down in Costa Mesa a couple of weeks ago, (does all of the engines for European Collectibles and others), he drove the car and confirmed my observations about the noises and leaks. He had no firm idea of the sources of the noises w/o a tear-down.

Soooooo, here is what I did today. Tomorrow it will go to a good machine shop for measurements, etc. This is what I'd refer to as a forensic tear-down, just trying to figure out what it needs to really put it right. These are fantastic cars and this one has its original Super engine, which was the "in-between" option. The 1600 normal was 60hp, the Super was 75 and of course the S-90 was 90 feisty German galloping beasts.

I'm sitting in a cafe and battery is about to die, so I'll continue this when I get home. :cool:

Engine out:
 

Starting point. Dropping the engine on this car is pretty darn easy. Instead of jacking the rear of the car 3 or 4 feet off the ground, I drop the motor from this height first and then raise, (the now very light), body with floor jack and slide the motor out. I dropped it onto some luan board, perfect for sliding and protecting aluminum case + driveway from random oil drips.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280125146.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280125476.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280125541.jpg

Engine is now on a nice soft piece of MDF behind the car, ready to tear-down.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280125644.jpg

Off comes everything:
 

Carbs/linkage/sheet metal/fan-genrator/exhaust/oil cooler/clutch/pulleys/heads/P&Cs. It just gets smaller and smaller as you go. And of course bigger and bigger when you put it back together. :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280126050.jpg
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280126393.jpg

A couple of things worth mentioning. A very experienced machinist and engine rebuilder I learned under once told me that he never uses impact tools to tear-down an engine. His reason was that he wanted to feel the parts and fasteners coming off, they give clues as to why it failed. (If in fact it did). My reason is that I want to know if fasteners were over-tightened or finger-loose. If the engine has never been apart since the factory, it's less crucial but on this one, I really had to know.

I do not have access to a torque-monitoring wrench/device, (they cost 10s of thousands of dollars), I rely on my hands to check previous torque when removing nuts and bolts. Proper tightening torque on fasteners is important on all types of machinery but on air-cooled engines, it's absolutely critical. Air-cooled boxer engines are like furbies or chia pets, they are almost living things. They expand and contract quite a bit as they get heated and cooled. I haven't read the torque specs for this 356 engine yet but the head nut torque on a VW engine is something like 36 lbs. A little more than finger-tight. When the engine gets hot, they get a lot tighter.

It was hard to tell whether the head stud fasteners were over-tightened on this one because the previous "rebuilder" used some type of thread-locker/glue on all of the threads that really stuck them. I will reserve judgement until I get the skinny from the real experts but my experience is with assembling 911 engines and you definitely do not use glue on any threads, with a couple of notable exceptions. Not on head stud nuts, thats for sure. Half of the studs came out with the nut when turned, not the end of the world but not right either. If anything, thread-locker is used on the other end of stud, ie. in the case end.

Thread-locker glue:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280127757.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280127792.jpg

A stud that unscrewed:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280127857.jpg

Other than that, nothing seemed terribly out-of-whack. Heads came right off with a gentle mallet tap:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280128047.jpg

The heads on these engines are ambidextrous, IOW it does not matter which one goes back on which side. They are identical. None-the-less, I labeled them in case there turns out to be any info gleaned from them regarding a particular cylinder.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280128232.jpg

And of course I labeled the P/Cs. They are very likely going right back on.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280128321.jpg

The pistons look new-ish and like JEs or some other after-market brand. I did not see any markings on the jugs indicating who made them. If they were Mahles or KS, they would have prominent markings. They have very interesting oil-control rings very low on them:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280128535.jpg

The jugs look fine as far as visible wear/ridges. I did not see any. Will get a much better look tomorrow. Sorry if these pics seem tedious or like over-kill, this thread is going to be part of the permanent record of the service being done to this beautiful, matching numbers car. The photos, my write-up and the receipts. Just like I did with my 911SC rebuild.

Stay tuned, "more will be revealed"...:cool:

Denis, let me know if you need any help on the car this week. I'm available to roll up your way any time after work.

Lastly, for tonight, I've been saving-up boxes for this little project. It's all about the boxes. :)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280128982.jpg

And that's a wrap for now. :cool:

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Will do, buddy. If nothing else, you can just come up and hang out. :cool:

Boy, sorry to see the crap on the studs. Guess different people work in different ways but never seen that before.

Keep it up!

Joe A

thanks for sharing, this is very cool. i can't believe you're doing all this in a drveway but i guess that's what living in paradise is all about. k

I'm gonna post a thread about getting my 356 going again...

However - one mod I *strongly* recommend - you can find directions in the old 356talk posts on the 356registry.org website. Anyway, it is a simple 6v buzzer that acts as a "you left your head lights on again you idiot" warning... total cost about $7, includes the part needed from radio shack and the cost of the 1 beer you can drink while you do it :)

Well talk about a feel-good thread! Very nice.

My hats are off to you. (Paul and Denis)

I hope we can see you when you come through the northwest.

I"m no use mechanically, but I could film the documentary...

Yeah. On the face of it, it just seems wrong. I'm going to engage Grady Clay on this, see if I can get him to hop onto this thread. (Pun intended). :)

It seems like it would be impossible to accurately torque the nuts w/ that crap on them. usually, you need to oil the nuts and get the threads perfect and clean, the design of them makes them hard to turn freely and also contributes to the fact that they just NEVER come loose if they are torqued correctly. Thread-locker on the other end, (in case), would be OK if needed. 911 engines have Loctite on studs in the case from factory.

This will all get rectified. :cool:

Couple more quick pics. The oil cooler looks a lot newer than the engine, the dirt on the fins is normal after years of use. It will get completely cleaned and tested. It's very important to have these flow-tested, some people only have them pressure-tested for leaks which can let a massive internal blockage go un-detected. Then the car over-heats in the middle of the desert or going over a mountain and the owner does not know why.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280160833.jpg

These are of course push-rod motors, the PRs are very interesting with what looks like aluminum in the center for weight-savings. Older ones had wood centers. Those crazy Krauts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280161024.jpg

Since the last report on this car, I've ordered a bunch of non-engine parts as well, cosmetic and rubber parts + suspension bushings, etc. Here are the reproduction door handles I installed, (+new seals), and the ones they replaced. The originals will be saved.

Old:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280161952.jpg

New:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1280161985.jpg

The lock buttons were not replaced and they are still needing refinishing. The cost of complete repro door handles is huge compared to the *handle only* part that we replaced.

The original rearview mirror was looking dowdy, so it got the Semi-chrome polish treatment:

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That thing sure looks familiar after working on AC VW's for, a while.

Heads look different to me. Did they do the 356 like they did the 2.0 914? Take a VW motor and put some groovy, high flow P car heads on them. The valves on the outside look angled.

What's the update on this creampuff? I think Paul is making preparations for a drive, and I just wonder if Denis is finished breathing his magic breath on it.

Very glad you asked, Sup, since I still plan on invading your abode.

The engine is out, no major problems and will be reassembled soon...standard stuff, bearing, polishing, etc. Denis has aligned himself with the best folks in the 356 world and I am amazed at the information I get. It is a Who's Who.

Axles next.

In the interim, much has been done.

Really. Denis may chime in, but everything is proceeding apace.

The new plan is I get to go see my Daughter at ASU for parents day on the 25th of September. I will then (as with all plans one has to be firm in the planning) get the car in LA and head up the coast to Seattle.

I have two stops on the way for business, one for pleasure (pwd) and then Armageddon with Sup. After that, back east with some stops in MT for stuff. I understand the risk of snow, but a day or two in the hills beats a month in Maryland.

The best thing so far is that Denis and I have from the start recognized that fact that old cars giggle at schedules, so we have (and will again if required) never pressed.

Denis gets it right, which is in my best interest.

A few picks from my drive out with Arden to follow. I enjoyed the fact we saw maybe 200 miles of interstate from OK onward. And one small fact, OK is really beautiful off the track. The Wachita Mountains were awesome. Lastly, I wish I could say she took the picks, but I rode most of the way...ignominious end to my life as a man:cool:

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Make sure you have a stop planned in Portland on your way up to Seattle. PM me when you have firm dates and we'll get the locals together to show our respect for such an awesome story and (class) act.

feel free to drop by Eugene for lunch or a beer - I-5 goes right thru town -- can maybe scare up a couple of other Pooschey-people, depending on schedules

If I were in your shoes, I would be looking very much forward to a trip up the left coast in a 356. Again, if I were you, I would seriously consider using 101 at least part of the way. Riding up and down 101 as a young man on a motorcycle is still, to this day, some of my best memories. Our weather here will be pleasing to you, I think. Driving a 356 through beautiful country with good weather should be rejuvinating. Which will be good preparation for the Armageddon.

If Paul drinks all the beers we're offering, he'll need a Designated Driver.

Hmmm... let's see - designated driver in a 356 up the Oregon/Washington coast. I'll make the sacrifice and volunteer.

Denis: please check your PM box. Cheers.

What a wonderful thread. And a great project! Just a couple of notes: As for the brake drums lasting forever -the drums corrode so that the wire ring and aluminum ridge that make up the dirt/water exclusion "maze" basically falls off. Very disconcerting if you happen to be driving the car when it happens. The engine pushrods at one time had wood IN the centers, not wooden centers. There were many iterations of pushrod materials and construction as well as cylinder barrel materials used over the years. The pushrods are matched to the material the cylinder barrels are made off to get similar heat expansion characteristics. Get the match wrong and your valve adjustment is a crapshoot. Someone asked if the 356 engine was an "improved" VW. No. They are completely different. I think the rear main seal is interchangeable. Can't think of any other part that is. There is a long list of VW interchange parts for the rest of the car though.
Thank you for this thread and the pics. The meticulous work going into this car is fantastic! Craftsmanship lives!!

I don't have a lot of new pictures right now but the engine is at the machine shop and parts are being ordered. The machine shop we're using is Kelly's Block Welding in Culver City. They were recommended to me by John Benton, a top 356/912 engine builder here in Southern CA. Oddly enough, I used them for my last engine rebuild which was a diesel truck. They did the heads and I was extremely pleased with the work but did not know that they were big in air-cooled stuff. Turns out that they are. :)

The P/Cs in the motor were old NPR "big bores" which are 86mm. (Dave B.--you called that right). ;) They basically stopped selling them ~20 years ago so that gives an idea of when this was last rebuilt. They are serviceable pistons, (crap/heavy/cast), but good iron jugs. The jugs are not worn and are totally re-usable. We are buying new forged 86mm pistons from Shasta Engineering, a company started many years ago by famous 356 racer/guru/engine builder Duanne Spencer. He wrote "The 356 Performance Handbook", a staple of any 356 library. When he was in SoCal years ago, Kelly's was the shop that did all of his motors. He's up in Northern California now.

The crank has been turned but is in good shape, just needed polishing. Measures-out fine. The cam in the motor is an old "Racer Brown" grind from the '60s. It was never a great choice even back then, according to Benton and Spencer. It will be schit-canned for either a new SC cam or a very similar grind. Still sorting that one as we speak. The last guy who put this engine together was a strange bird. He used Loctite on rod bolts, case bolts, the flywheel gland nut, you name it. He put in a cam that is not well-matched to the stock Zenith carbs which are still present.

The heads were replaced sometime recently and they are 912 heads in perfect condition. Yay! :) These are the best ones to have with their bigger valves and factory 30deg. combustion chambers. The bottom line is that with Duanne's excellent forged pistons and the SC cam, this motor will sing! I'm a pretty good chef once I have the recipe and I have the best guys in the world looking over my shoulders. John Benton says that the new combo of parts will make this engine "butter". Duanne's Shasta forged pistons are 2 ounces lighter per piston than the crap NPRs and one hell of a lot stronger! Not to mention balanced. I want to have the flywheel lightened to ~14 lbs. which is what the Super 90 was from factory. This finished motor will produce about 90+hp.

The transaxle is coming out and going to Dave B. @ TRE Motorsports for a once-over this week if I can ever get the axle nuts off. I think that the same guy who did the engine last used a 10-foot breaker bar and a whole tube of Loctite on them. Might have to load the car on a trailer or flatbed and take it up the street to a shop with a stronger Impact/compressor. Aaarghh....:rolleyes:

Anywhoo, pictures:

I waited until I got to the shop to split the case, just on the chance that there was anything notable to show Garrick as it came apart. (There wasn't, other than a shtload of Loctite). Garrick is the actual man behind the curtain @ Kelly's. Not sure who Kelly is/was. ;)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282371462.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282371584.jpg

We had to use this massive 3/4 drive impact to get the gland nut loose, it sounded like a freaking motorcycle::eek:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282371842.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282371936.jpg

While I was there, a guy with a Smokey and the Bandit Pontiac T/A stopped by to show Garrick the car with engine installed. Garrick built him a 600hp mill out of the stock bb. He did a nice burn-out in the alley when he left. Since we're all equal-oportunity gear-heads, here are some pics of the TranAm, (Garrick on left, owner on right):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282372304.jpg
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Factory CB radio! :D
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Easy-off over cleaner will do the same thing, it just might take a couple applications.

That's a shot of the axle nut that won't come off. At least not yet. :cool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282406797.jpg

Also took the speedo and combo gauge to North Hollywood Speedometer to get fixed and they are in a bag inside car. They look great, I'll try to get a picture up. :cool:

I have a 3/4 inch drive socket set and a 6 foot cheater pipe for that purpose. Axle nuts from VW's to Carreras laugh at us.

I love this thread. If you are passing through Sonoma County and need anything, don't hesitate to ask!

Great thread..... if your ever in OK again take the Talimena drive:) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282414360.jpg

I rode it on a motorcycle in 2001 with an old CO of mine. What a road...there are turns when you really feel like you are flying.

He was a Vietnam era helo pilot for the Navy...HAL squadrons that supported the riverine folks. He and I hooked up in Patuxent River. No better pilot I have ever met.

He has done great things after the Navy...including getting me off the Talimena drive:cool:

I thank everyone for their generous words...Denis is the star of this show, however...and others, including Scott and Milt.

It is never easy but it can be comfortable. I am very much looking forward to seeing this great country from the seat of the little notchback.