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I can't take any credit, but thanks. The car had damage from a collision with something on the ground, speed bump or parking lot bumper. Not sure.
Denis may have to take it by a body shop to make sure everything is straight under there. I put in a battery pan but didn't finish the job. I'm sure the suspension and critical points are all fine, the damage was forward of all the steering, etc. Just a good bump from underneath. I tried to make a piece that was needed and the joke was on me. Read this for a quick giggle The car is drivable, but that's all I could do. As Paul said, Denis is the director of the project. And doing a fine job. |
Update:
Haven't had a lot of time to post photos lately but here are a few, this should be a big week for re-assembling the engine and car. My last post on this thread was dropping-off the engine at the machine shop where everything was measured/checked and crank was polished, etc...
All measurements were fine on the case, (very important), crank had been turned one repair size on rod journals and 2 repair sizes on mains. Case was still standard, (never align-bored), and fortunately not in need of same. Each repair size on crank= .25 mm. To give you an idea of how precisely this was done in the past, the main journals measure 49.5046 mm. (Original size is 50 mm). They were not worn and the crank was simply polished for minor signs of wear/use. The case is the original numbers-matching piece and is in great shape. The transaxle was removed while the engine is out and sent off to TRE Motorsports for an overhaul and re-seal, fortunately it only needed bearings refreshed and a general *once-over*. They do first-class work. I'll get some pics when I go to pick it up today or tomorrow. I also had a lot of parts powdercoated black by a great PC guy across from TRE, engine tin and swing arms, etc... First order of business is cleaning the case properly. The general wash that it got at the machine shop is only a starting point, you need to still clean and check all passages and mating surfaces, etc... (I know...I say "etc..." too much). :) For case cleaning, I use my WW2 surplus gun-cleaning kit that I actually bought at the Porsche Literature and Memorabilia show and swap meet several years ago from one of the big 356 parts sellers. Never knew what I'd use it for, how's that for a coinky-dink? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288631720.jpg I almost forgot...when I got it back from machine shop, one of the oil pressure-relief bypass pistons was completely stuck in the timing case, which is the front cover (rear-facing when in car), part of the 3-piece case. God only knows how long it had been like that but it needed to be drilled and pulled-out w/ a tiny slide hammer by my machinist. The last guy who "re-built" this mill really did not know his ass from page 9 and I discovered that he had the two springs reversed in the 2 relief bores. (One in main case and one in timing case). Easily rectified now but just one of many small eff-ups that will be corrected in this new overhaul. Old piston after removal: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288632226.jpg The two springs, (they are almost identical but not): http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288632302.jpg |
How did I know which spring goes in which hole, you may be wondering? Am I some Porsche super-jenius who has the measurements in millimeters of every oil pressure-relief spring in every engine they ever made memorized? :)
No. I would not have a clue which one goes where if not for a couple of indispensable books and some real 356 super-jeniuses that I have on speed-dial. One of the books is this great, seminal text by Henry Elfrink from the late '50s. I have the 3rd edition, printed in 1965 with all pertinent info to this motor. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288632731.jpg It's very much like a factory manual but even better in some ways, IMO, because of his wonderful exposition. (He's long-winded...like me on this thread). Here is the specs on the two springs for Paul's motor: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633145.jpg |
One of the springs is 2 mm longer than the other and has thinner wire. The last guy had a 50/50 when he guessed which one went where and he rolled snake-eyes. It does matter, because it deals w/ oil pressure. I'm not sure what effect the stuck one had but it wasn't good. :)
I proceeded to clean the case my way, including cleaning all of the old adhesive from mating surfaces and studs and cleaning small passages. I use a very fine flat stone w/ WD-40 type spray to clean flat mating surfaces, it is a very mild "surfacer" that will catch any burrs or tiny high-spots on flat aluminum. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633663.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633696.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633721.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633750.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633775.jpg I do a final clean w/ etching-type alloy wheel cleaner to get a *better than factory* finish on case parts: :) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288633930.jpg |
I'm about to assemble the crank and rods, then install in case along w/ cam and followers and put case together. We got some beautiful forged pistons from Duane Spencer @ Shasta Engineering and a stock 356SC cam. The cam that was in the motor was an old Racer Brown grind, (a name from way back in the time machine), and not even close to optimal for this engine. I checked the flywheel-to-main bearing clearance and did some minor balancing of the rods over the weekend. I got a cheap digital scale from Harbor Freight, (really accurate), and got scientific:
The pistons w/ pins turned out to be very well balanced w/ (2) @ 443 grams combined and (2) @ 444 grams combined. I will put the heavier two nearest to flywheel, opposite each other of course. This is only a 5500 rpm motor so this may be overkill but WTF, I want it to be smooth. :D http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288634557.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288634609.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288634681.jpg |
I weighed the pistons and pins separately and matched them to get my 2+2 sets:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288634816.jpg |
The rods weighed-in @ 463 for (2) of them, 462 for one and 464 for one. I shaved a gram off of the heavy one and called it a day. Now I have (3) @ 463 and one @ 462. I studied where the factory seemed to shave them and noticed that the heavy one had a little more meat right here, (in yellow), so I dremeled off a gram from all 4 corners of that rod. It was extremely minor:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288635134.jpg There are a lot more pics of spring plates/torsion bars/etc. but my battery is dying and I need to get to work so more later. :cool: EDIT: The light rod is 462, not 461 grams. I have (3) @ 463 and (1) @ 462 now. The Porsche factory allows 3 grams variance/tolerance so we're way ahead of the game. |
Here are a couple spy-shots of the trans being put together @ TRE last week:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288635303.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288635329.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288635363.jpg |
Wow, it is coming along nicely!
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That's gorgeous! I love the attention to detail!
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Update:
Things are coming along nicely, albeit slowly. There is something about a 356 project that is like a black hole, time-wise...100s of small delays that make work stop until a missing 0-ring is ordered, etc...
An example would be completely dry-assembling the engine to measure all combustion chamber-related clearances, from deck-height to piston-to-valve and piston/head clearance, etc., etc... Some of this is done w/ modeling clay on tops of pistons, assemble/turn motor by hand/disassemble/measure/re-assemble. We changed pistons and cam, the heads have been cut in the past to an unknown degree. There is a dearth of printed information on the exact stock measurements of a 912 head, (which it has), so measure away I went. The last guy to assemble the engine was an absolute jackass, it's a testament to the heartiness of the Porsche that it ran as well as it did. He had extra spacers under the cylinders to compensate for shaved heads that were not necessary according to my measurements. At least not with the 356SC cam that I installed, who knows with the goofy off-brand cam that was in it. :rolleyes: Spacers are essential if needed but CR-robbing if not. This whole chapter is a LONG story and my time has been short to deal with it, so it dragged-on for a while. It's now sorted-out and the engine should be completed Monday. I still need to finish setting-up the axles on the the (newly rebuilt) transaxle and install it, then the engine goes back in and away it goes. I have dozens of photos of the job and tried just now to set-up a Picassa album to post them all on and put a link here. For some reason, Picassa does not want to download onto my computer right now, I'll try again later. Here are a few randoms, sorry but I do not have time to caption them all. :)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292177154.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292177200.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292177273.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292177380.jpg |
Did not have valve job done because it did not need one, evidence of recent head work so had machine shop disassemble heads and check guides, (excellent), plus measure springs, etc. I neglected to have him clean-up the combustion chambers, (my oversight), they were not terribly bad w/ carbon but it became an issue once precise measurements were needed re: piston/valve/head clearance.
Sooooo....., took them apart and cleaned them + lapped valves. The last pic in previous post is one clean/one dirty valve. It turned-out that the valve springs measure perfect but they were shimmed all wrong in terms of installed spring height. There are a couple of (slightly) varying specs on this, we went with stock 912 spec since they are 912 heads and cam. The original 356 spec was 1 mm less on exhaust valves. At any rate, the last guy had them off by 2-3 mm and not even all the same. That's a ton off. My guy did not measure them, he assumed that they were alright and simply re-assembled heads as they were given to him. Good thing I had to take them apart! :eek: The valve seal is excellent on all valves, other than dirt/carbon, they were like freshly ground. Dirty vs. clean CCs: (I used a soft wire "cup" on drill that put a chrome-like finish on them): http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292178213.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292178284.jpg Lapping valves: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292178334.jpg Measuring installed spring height: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292178385.jpg |
I had a lot of parts powder-coated black and the guy did an beautiful job. (Bill @ Ajax, right across street from TRE Motorsports). There are certain parts that should not be PCed because of the stripping method used which is media-blasting. Anything that holds oil, generally speaking.
Therefore, the axle tubes were hand-stripped with wire wheels, manually cleaned and painted. Same with oil-filler tube for engine, etc... Other suspension parts and all engine cooling sheet metal was PCed. I'll get pictures up of that stuff later, it's beautiful. The inside of the torsion tubes have a light coat of surface rust, not bad at all compared to most original 356s but must be addressed, IMO. Who knows when in hell it will be back apart like this. After a lot of thought and some advice, I have a plan of attack for them that involves getting a wire brush inside and then painting the interior of tube with red-oxide rust-inhibiting primer. (Same as used on T-bars). Here is the inside of rear torsion tube: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292179454.jpg You can see the shot rubber bushing in this pic, original to car(?) We have all new ones plus new Konis in the box to install: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292179558.jpg My first assault on the tube was to cook out any moisture w/ a heat gun, turning it on for 20 minutes and then off to cool-down, several times over a period of days: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292179708.jpg |
Here is the engine as of last night:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292179899.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292179931.jpg |
Great job Denis. Things look to be progressing nicely.
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Any particular reason for that choice in shocks?
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Very cool. Thanks again for sharing all of this.
Where did you learn how to work on a 356? Are there any go-to books that you can recommend for someone who has never really worked one of these cars? I trailered a numbers matching C coupe home Friday that I will be putting on a rotisserie and doing A LOT of work on. I'm sure I'll use this thread as a reference in the future, but I was wondering if there were books, websites, etc., available that are worth buying or reading? TIA |
That's incredible! Thanks for the update.
I only hope that when I'm in a position to do a restoration like this, I can find someone with your skill to do it. Wow. |
Lookin good Denis!
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WOW Dennis, you are the man!!!
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Quote:
I don't actually have any 356-specific knowledge. At least I didn't before tackling this project. :) I know 911s pretty well, though, and they were designed by the same people. So was the air-cooled VW. Basically just be careful and try to pay attention to the way things come apart so that you can remember how to put them back together later. I do have some engine-specific knowledge including air-cooled experience, (rebuilt my 911), but I've learned a lot on this car. It's brilliantly and logically designed for the most part, so it's really not bad to work on. I do not know how to rebuild a transmission so that was sent-out to TRE Motorsports where they have a guy with the right skill-set and experience for the job. Factory manuals are the best books for any mechanical job but they are very expensive and getting rare for these cars. I wish I had them. I've made due with a combination of good 356 books. My absolute favorite is the Henry Elfrink book from the 1950s, (with several updates/revisions), that I mentioned earlier on the thread. It is very close to being a factory manual and very well-written. I have the 1965 edition: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292195128.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292195602.jpg Another absolutely invaluable resource, IMO, are these compilations of 356 registry articles sold under the title, "Technical and Restoration Guide". the articles are written by guys like Vic Skirmants and Harry Pellow, (The "Maestro"), they are the most knowledgable 356 people (formerly) on earth. The other book is the "356 Performance handbook" by Duanne Spencer which has a lot of info in it as well but is not a repair manual per se. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292195905.jpg Here is a sample of the 356 TaRG: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292195986.jpg |
And thanks for all the kind words. I think that I'm doing a good job but I'm very slow and luckily Seahawk has not completely lost the plot on this thing. He's been very patient and understanding. :)
Tomorrow, I need to put the motor in my PU truck and take it to a place that works on large diesel trucks in order to get the gland nut for the flywheel torqued-down. I considered the *long pipe* method discussed in another thread but you really need a 3/4" drive socket and breaker bar, neither of which I have. I broke my 1/2" drive ratchet trying to remove an axle nut a few months ago w/ the long pipe attached. Thank you for Sears lifetime warrantees. ;) The gland nut is the only thing holding the flywheel on and it is not reverse-threaded, so it could un-screw itself if not sufficiently tight. That would make a loud noise on the highway. The original factory spec is 260 lbs./ft., I have a much stronger aftermarket gland nut that can be tighter. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that it should be 300+. I could go to the tire shop with the 3/4 impact but I'd have no idea what the actual torque is, so off the land of the giant torque wrench. Here is the new gland nut, it's a chrome moly piece from Scat Enterprises that Duanne Spencer swears by in his book. It is supposedly unbreakable. :eek: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292196921.jpg It also has a roller bearing for the pilot bushing. Overkill? Maybe but it should be quiet. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292197019.jpg |
I read an interesting but scary story in the book of 356 Registry articles about a mysteriously over-heating engine that turned-out to have a major blockage in the oil cooler. It did not leak, (the usual way that oil coolers fail), and oil still flowed through 1/2 the cooler. The car was fine in normal driving but on a long summer journey, it over-cooked. :eek:
We have the latest/greatest 912 cooler on this engine and it looks fairly new-ish but I went nuts cleaning and testing it after reading that article. I could not find the exact capacity of the thing in any literature but that did not stop me from cc'ing it anyways and doing some strange procedures with it. First was cleaning it, very straight-forward: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292197420.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292197452.jpg Then, I cc'ed it with clean solvent and rinsed several times alternating with compressed air in both flush directions. Finally, I set it upside down for several days with clean solvent to the very brim to see if it went down any. If there was an oil clot in it, the solvent would at least permeate it over time and go down in level slightly. It never moved one beaver hair. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292197700.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292197730.jpg |
I mentioned the nice powdercoating work, here is a shot of the pulley. Porsche put nice little indents @ TDC, 5deg. and 180 from top which is TDC for the other 2 cylinders. Makes it really easy to adjust valves. I had to gently chisel the marks after the PC filled them, I put a tiny drop of paint in them to make them easier to see once the engine is together and installed. Who knows how long they'll last but they can always be re-done.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292198061.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292198084.jpg I have a major *ATTABOY* for anyone who can tell me exactly WTF these "ball-check" deals are in the valve covers. I cannot for the life of me figure out what they accomplish(?) :confused: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292198220.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292198243.jpg |
Lastly, for now, are a couple pics of the measuring I referred to earlier. This is measuring the valve/piston clearance by putting modeling clay on piston, assembling engine and turning by hand, then removing head and checking:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292198598.jpg The clearance turned-out to be perfectly fine w/o spacers, glad I did not just put them back in. Paul paid good money for a set of 9.25:1 forged pistons, it would suck to reduce the CR unnecessarily. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292198768.jpg |
Quote:
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Quote:
Shoptalkforums.com • View topic - Crankcase Breathing And Charles Navarro wrote. "A note about valve covers: make sure each head is vented to the air cleaner or preferably, to a catch tank, and you use the steel reinforced valve cover gaskets, installed just with oil, sold by Vic Skirmants at 356 Enterprises. This will save you the hours of grief we encountered with my 1883 on the dyno, sucking in valve cover gaskets..." Just trying to help. |
Forgot the credit for Charles at L&N Engineering.
http://www.lnengineering.com/hotrod356.pdf |
Thanks, I just can't see where they vent to. I'll have to take a closer look at them.
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Paul is going to have one hell of a car when you're done Denis.
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I need a facebook "like" button. I'm kind of speechless.
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absolutely amazing...waiting for the next installment on the torsion tube cleaning :)
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Now this my friends is a torque wrench:
Didn't get a lot done today except for getting the gland nut torqued-down. Some smart friend suggested that I needed to take the engine to a place that works on semi trucks and other large diesels to find the big 3/4" torque wrench for the job. The factory spec is 260 lbs./ft. and the current wisdom from some respected engine builders is to go tighter, as long as you use the right gland nut. The SCAT chrome moly one we're using is supposedly unbreakable, I am not willing to test that claim but I decided that it will be 300+ lbs.
Believe it or not, this is less than at least one builder recommends. I remembered that the only big truck shop I know of happens to be owned by a very respected Porsche guy, Marty Metarian. He is the chief driving instructor for POC, (the racing org. that runs the best school/licensing program in SoCal), and He had helped me out in the past when I rebuilt my Powerstroke diesel. I called him up today. "Hey Marty, do you have a really large 3/4" torque wrench?" "Yes." "How high does it go?" "I think that one of them goes to 600 lbs./ft." "That'll do." :D So I put the 356 engine in the back of my truck and drove out to Van Nuys to Von's Diesel Repair. Here is the torque wrench: :eek: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292293835.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292293863.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292293892.jpg I kneeled on the opposite side of the motor and he asked me how much torque. "300." "Click-click". :cool: |
That's an expensive tool.
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That wrench looks sickly expensive.
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Almost certainly worth more than my truck.
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Glad you found a tool that worked out for you.
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Quote:
Deal????? |
re: BFTW
bid away ! I think they are a little under a thou new from Snap On Denis, somehow i missed this thread until now. Thanks for the very informative and entertaining posts. You are doing a great job. Good luck with the rest of the project! max |
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