Dude, that's an awfully wide brush. about 45% of the people in california are very reasonable and conservative.

Leland, you have my sympathy.

I'm fortunate my wife is such a horse person. It keeps her focused on the more conservative states for our eventual departure from AZ.

Speeder, I understand what you are saying, I just meant the only reason he would have for losing his guns would be after a self defense situation, then, so be it. Just be careful with them.

Leland, I understand the pain, my wife and I bought property 300 feet from the beach on the Pacific, Costa Rica, built a house and started a business there. I moved there, when it came time she just couldn't do it. We commuted for years and finally one Christmas she came down and said if I stayed there longer I would have to have a different wife. I told her if I stayed without her, I wouldn't need a wife. But I moved back to California, took a while but got a job with an engineering co. I used to work for. We finally sold the place after renting it for a few years. I miss it but I can live anyplace, I know I can. Her, not so much.

Sammy ... I know what you mean. But it doesn't matter how many real people are normal. If only 3% the population are whackos, it only matters if those 3% are able to establish policy. Laws are laws. And CA has no shortage of those.

I am going to leave the politics out of this because I don't want this thread tossed into the black hole of PARF.

ahh, so now we get to the root of some of your anger :D

I kept a sidearm in my place when I lived in DC and I even CCW'ed it once in a while. But you're usually ok in DC if you use a gun for self defense. I've CCW'ed plenty in CA too. I have a photo of a sign in woods in Mammoth Lakes that reads something to the effect of "gunfire prohibited except in case of emergency." I think they know you have be vigilant out there with bears and people crossing paths so often. I love to visit CA and do so almost once a month. But I also love coming home to AZ.

It will suck losing you as a "neighbor" Leeland.

Personally, i would rather eat broken glass and die than live in Kalifornia.

PS: If you want to store your spoons at my house you can keep them all here free of charge. I'll let ya move your safes into my garage, bolt them to the floor in a corner, and go about your way without giving me the combo. I'll be in my new place long term, and i have plenty of space. My garage area is protected by an alarm system, steel doors, and me.

It is a serious offer.

"My problem is basically that my wife can find work almost anywhere.. her job hunt revolves around looking for hospitals in Google Maps. They are almost always hiring RN's for at least one shift. I, on the other hand, am so highly specialized I have very little hope of finding work in my field."

Obvious answer is you suck it up in Armpit, CA until you find work, then you and universally-employable wife move there. Will be a powerful motivator for you to find work, change fields, or otherwise do the necessary to get out of there.

BTW, yes Manteca is on the way to the Sierras and Yosemite. Just like Modesto, Stockton, Merced, and similar garden spots.

Leland, move to Las Vegas!!! Probably 'plenty' of job opportunities for someone in your field and gun friendly State, close to CA .. but far enough .... just an idea ...

Very kind offer here, Lee...I'd suggest you consider it.

One thing not mentioned here...California is a TAX HELL! Just ask Hugh. Just heard on Brinker's money talk that the top capital gains rate in Caliornia is now 30.5% That's outright theft...and does NOT foster biz growth and investments.

edit: One good thing I've gleaned is you have no children. This makes decision making easier...
Another good thing...Your pool cue is still legal in Californicate...:)

He is also one of the lucky ones that has a decent job/income. If that went away, I wonder how long he'd be singing its praises or if he (like I) would gladly skeedaddle for somewhere else that actually has opportunities.

You have to remember that throughout its history, CA has been built on speculation. It is boom or bust there - always has been. If you can catch it during a boom time, it's a very dynamic and exciting place. However during a bust (like now) it busts harder, deeper and longer than anywhere else. And those busts affect everybody.

During my years flying cargo I probably saw and experienced more of the state of CA than anyone else in this thread. I've been to / stayed at every corner of the state north to south, east to west, Death Valley to Mt. Whitney. I spent a month hiking the John Muir trail, I have been all over L.A., Orange County, San Diego, Sacramento and San Francisco for extended times as well. It is an amazing and breathtaking place with a richness and diversity of geology, geography, population and culture like noplace else I've ever been. Not even close.

This only underscores the magnitude of the tragedy of its fall. To see a place with such unbelievable potential and richness falling into ruin is a tragedy of epic proportions. Regardless of where you are on the state, you WILL run into:

- too many people
- too much traffic
- overly expensive housing
- too many regulations and rules
- crumbling infrastructure
- illegals
- crime
- rampant unemployment
- rampant foreclosures
- business failures

However, you could also run into those things in many other places. It got to be too overwhelming day after day after day however. Maybe some day I'll go back (if I ever win the lottery, cause that's the only way I figure I'll be able to afford it). One certainly can't count on consistent/reliable income any other way (either employment or investments) anymore. And if one wants to start a business there right now, forget it. It's a surefire way to turn a big pile of money into a small one. The taxes, regulatory structure, expenses associated with operating there and general anti-business climate are prohibitive to say the least (yes, I have first-hand knowledge and information on this). It's mind-boggling how difficult it is to actually make money there during anything other than a boom ; the rules are set up for people being able to "do all right" when everything is going gangbusters and everyone is awash in money. At any other time (like now) those barriers/fees/costs/burdens do not scale themselves - it makes those barriers to entry/success that much higher so as to be insurmountable. Opportunities are FAR better and more sane elsewhere.

Best of luck to you. If you go, try to look at the positive and enjoy it for as long as you can (or as long as money holds out). There's a lot to love about the place but unfortunately it is being supplanted by poverty, stupidity, etc.

I think I got out at the right time. It is a wonderful place to behold and a decent place to live if you're either lucky and have money, lucky and hit it during a boom time, or EXTREMELY lucky and able to hold onto income during a non-boom time, but it's a dreadful place to "get caught".

Dean,

The problem is not in that "he should be ok" but the problem is that if something silly happens, like someone breaks into the house while they are gone and the police enter, all it would take is to find something that the idiots in Kalifornia have banned that Lee has that is legal in 48 other states. That would gain him a felony for possessing a spoon that he legally owns where he lives now, and thats something that he really does not need.

Better that he find someone else out of state that he trusts (Jordi in Vegas or Rick Lee in Phoenix perhaps?) who has a big spoon safe where he can store them legally until he leaves and returns to the "real world" for good.

Joe A

Another thing for you to consider (especially if kids are in the equation for you) is the quality of "family-oriented" life (or lack thereof). In the rural areas like the central valley I'd think it is far better, but all of the coastal/urban/quasi-urban areas are very much NOT "family-friendly". Yes, you can make anything work, but the reality is a lot of CA is not set up to work well for people with family needs/considerations. The schools (pretty much statewide) are also ranked consistently near the bottom.

This might be a huge factor for you or not at all, depending - something to be aware of though.

I would rather not live in Manteca, but the areas east are very inviting for recreation. Down here at the beach I have to drive over an hour just to find elevation changes. ;)

Much less an interesting and uncrowded road.

I appreciate all the replies. As far as my rifles are concerned... I will be dragging them all to Tennessee and storing them in my mom's vault. Before my dad died, he built a vault/gunroom that isn't used anymore. The real complexity lies in the NFA weapons which have to be stored in a place unaccessable to others.

CA is going to be short in duration no matter what. I have no problem moving there temporarily. I love my wife to death and still think we'll be ok in the long run.

The plan, right now, is to move there and find something... security guard, if I have to... until she is finished with her bachelors degree.

Anyone work at Lawrence Livermore?

This is unbelievably horrible advice. You are advising him to commit multiple felonies.

Lee, if you have a non-NFA black rifle, depending on the make/model/features you may be able to bring it if you convert it to a bullet button for the magazine, and get some 10-round mags.

Info and a flowchart here:
Flowchart: What is an "Assault Weapon?"

Leland,

Thats an excellent option and prolly the best. Only issue is that you are a long way away but at least you know they are safe and sound.

My nephew (who does black work at Lockheed) knows some people at Livermore... Need help there?

Joe

Thats an excellent idea!

MANTECA!!!Q oh, hell noooooo.

just kidding. you are a mere 2 hours away from san francisco..we have a good group here. we can keep you entertained for years!!

I guess it was a bad idea to take those spoons with me when I drove to Costa Rica.

edit for spoons