Wise words. You have to realize that he's one of the people that has no actual, direct knowledge of CA. other than what he reads on an internet bbs. You know, opinions from other people who've never been here, etc...

If you need 300k a year to live well here, I must have died years ago and just be dreaming all of this. This is a much better place to be broke than where I'm from, at least I'm in CA. :p

I'd say that the 300/100 comparison is true about NYC/the heartland but not L.A. And 100k a year is still big money in the podunks, if not mistaken. You can buy yourself any kind of lifestyle you want here and I know people who burn through $100k a month but also others who live on $1k a month. Young students sharing an apartment, etc...

As for the PC attitude supposedly encountered everywhere, it is much, MUCH worse in Minneapolis, where I spend a lot of time. Half the people in MN. are conservative, (or at least sane), the other half are either hairy, angry dykes driving Subarus or some other knee-jerk lefties w/ bumper stickers holding their $8 cars together. Don't even get me started about that place. I'll take it here any day. We have beautiful dykes here, some don't even have bumper stickers. :)

When I moved here, it was for the culture. And by culture, I mean beautiful chicks EVERYWHERE, the undisputed car capital of the world, unrivaled climate and natural beauty, the motion picture and recording industries, the best public universities in the land, proximity to outdoor activities, etc., etc... All of those things are here plus a lot more that I had to discover for myself. There is no way on earth that someone could adequately know the CA. that I live in by reading uninformed opinions on the internet.

Is it perfect? Hell no. Adults understand that no place is perfect. You choose your place with everything that matters to you factored in. When I leave here and go ANYWHERE else, (including NYC or Chicago), I'm immediately struck by how the (cheap) food sucks, the lack of beautiful babes everywhere you look, usually the schitty weather, etc., etc... I feel compelled to stand up for my state here. If fools kept their mouths shut, I would not rub it in how superior it is here. But hey, need to represent...;)

The OP and a few others here have what I consider to be a very unusual reason for hating CA. They own or collect guns that less than 1 out of 1 million Americans feel compelled to own. I do not know what they are other than they must be extremely regulated and illegal for anyone to own outside of some big exceptions(?) Gun laws are always going to be different in populated areas than in rural ones, the gun laws here work fine for me. To each their own but admit that this reason for living somewhere is not what the vast majority of people would factor-in. Rick Lee loves living in Phoenix because he can carry a gun on his belt. I would not care if they let me drive a Sherman tank on the street, I would not live there for free.

Years ago, I was talking about the price of a mansion in South Dakota w/ a friend. I think they were $40k at the time. He made a wise statement: "What good is a cheap house in a place where you don't want to live?"

Indeed. :cool:

My old man's gorgeous english tudor house in the burbs here cost $300k.

The same house in SoCal would be $3,000,000 or more.

Here you can rent a 1 BR apt for $500/mo. In Kali the same apt is $1000 and up.

The cost of living out there is totally insane compared to here (and compared to most places).

Friend of mine is a nurse. She had a nice house here, and lots of excess pocket money. She moved to LA and had to get a 1 br apt because she couldn't even afford a little starter house out there.

My 2nd repo partner also moved to SoCal, and within 1 year he was on his way to Texas he hated it so much.

There are 10s of millions of Americans that despise Kali as being all that is wrong with America. It is not rare at all to think that way. There also tens of millions of Americans that own firearms that are prohibited by Kali law.

I like Pennsylvania quite a lot. Philly sucks, but again, the whole state outside of the cities is absolutely beautiful, picturesque god's country. And it is one of the free-est states in the entire nation.

And here your money goes one HELL of a lot farther than it does in La La land.

Do a quick search on the web...the consensus seems to be that the overall cost of living is roughly 50-60% higher in LA than in Philly. That would mean you need $160k to lead a similar lifestyle.

As I also noted, you can't compare two places on cost of living alone. There are a million different factors and everyone places different emphasis on them. I'm moving downtown Chicago soon to a very expensive area on a relatively low salary because at this point in my life I value the city lifestyle and nightlife it offers over most other things. I could live in the suburbs and be closer to my job for a lot less money, but it wouldn't be half as fun, even with the increase in toys that I would be able to afford.

That comparison falls on it's face immediately when you include real estate/rental costs.

As far as moving to Chicago, that and NJ are among the very few places in America i'd rather live less than LA.

Chicago, the fealty of Daley.

The politics in California sucks, it is bad. Orange County and a few other spots still have thinking people but it is getting bad here. The weather here is super, we leave our windows open, no screens, all summer long. No bugs, no mosquitoes, no weird flys. Sit out on the patio all evening, no bugs. Some rain in the winter but you can drive the Porsche EVERY day. The people accept almost anyone, you can see it, we get the dregs from the other states, people that can't make it come here for the freeloading.
Traffic here is just like any other big city, I have been in worse traffic in Seattle.
And then there is Manteca, One of the Greatest Motorcycle Racers in the world, Kenny Roberts is from Manteca. I can live anywhere, but I won't live where it snows. I can survive here.
Even Algor likes the place, he bought that 9 million dollar house on the beach.

Well guys, it seems that Lee will soon be making up his own mind about life in California. It will be interesting to read his impressions after a year or two...

Finally some common sense... Seriously, it's pretty incredible to me how US citizens on this forum react to CA (or France, maybe for the same reasons), you'd think it truly is another country (well in the case of France, it is).. *United* states of America ? Not even close... Interesting...

As someone who lived in the SF area for 10y and moved to the East coast - not that I hated CA, I just got priced out - I agree with nostatic... It's not *that* different. You get to use $, people speak english (or no more spanish than in Miami anyway, besides, Mexican spanish is easier to understand than Cuban spanish), by and large the few major annoyances I can think of are slightly higher sales tax and SMOG check of your cars (or registration, $$$)... Income taxes, don't think so, in my experience, what I save in FL I lose in property tax vs. Cali.

On the flip side, most of the famous Porsche shops are there, your pelican deliveries will be swift, the scenery is *superb* (and so are some of the roads), the weather is really good year round, rust free Porsches and old cars galore, lots of diversity in ethnic foods, etc...

Guns laws? OK, Maybe if I was more into guns that's be an issue, but I only got one and I'm pretty sure I can keep it if I move back, if that is your hobby that kinda sucks but I'm sure they'll let you shoot something, I see Mythbusters do it on TV all the time ;-)

Granted, Manteca, meh.... But you're 1/2 a day away from fantastic drives all over the north and south bay, like Napa, Marin county, Santa Cruz, Monterey... Stuff you can do in your POrsche, with your wife.. And then, move back to wherever you are more comfortable...

It's really not THAT bad... Somedays I wonder how this country is still in one piece !

Socal is OK. Not spectacular, but certainly OK. There's a lot of crazy emotional stuff being said in this thread.

Any thoughts I might entertain of leaving SoCal are quickly put to rest when I come home from travel. All locales I have traveled (well except Philly) have their upside(s) but for my lifestyle and needs I have found few places that can even offer a competitive challenge. The state is huge and offers something for everyone - as long as you like fruit and nuts with your cheese ;)

Leland, get ready to enjoy the PRK.

Check your liberties at the door, and remember you can only have 10rd magazines here. Bringing/purchasing/selling "hi cap" mags to this state is a misdemeanor. You should "rebuild" them to be 10rds or buy new ones.

Again, Welcome. You'll be ready to leave in no time at all.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1274731473.jpg

The nice parts of California are very nice indeed. They are expensive to live in, it does depend on your lifestyle of course.

If you're in an industry that is the same everywhere - like a nurse - then economically you're likely to be better off elsewere. If you don't much care about weather, coast/mountains, culture, views - then you'll likely enjoy life just as much elsewhere.

But for certain industries, California is where the jobs are. Try to do software development, semiconductor design, biotech, film/TV, top-level academia, investment management, etc in Philly - you'll be jobless for a long time.

And if you do want beautiful weather, low humidity, no insect swarms, no snow unless you want it, gorgeous coastline, spectacular mountains, dynamic arts and music scene, etc, California has that. How's that snow skiing in Houston, anyway?

As with most things, it comes down to your personal lifestyle and priorities. Obviously if NFA firearms or cars without smog control are a high priority, you can't live in California.

I evidently don't think California is the only good place to live, since I now live in western Oregon, where I can have high-capacity magazines for an assault rifle, but half the year there's no place to shoot it without being cold and wet.

We have plenty of coast/mountains/views here too. For a fraction of the price.

And snow too, which is actually considered a huge plus by about half the population.

We'll export DC's snowfalls to PA since you fellas consider it a huge plus. :D

my buddy lived in coastal Penn for a year then moved to Texas...

http://www.mikelevin.com/BigSurBridge800.jpg

http://www.welcometosocal.com/articl...ER-SUNSET..jpg

Your wife is in California, and in the short term can't/won't move. Isn't that a huge motivating factor? Why not just move together for now, and see how it goes? Both of your jobs seem fairly portable. When the time becomes right, move to another part of California if you hate Manteca. The state is large and diverse enough that most people can find somewhere to like and afford. And if you can't find that in California, then move to another state. At least the two of you would be together in the meantime.

Like a couple of others have posted, there's a lot to like about California. I'd think the factors of good weather and an active car culture would be pretty big positives. You get to drive your P-car year round! Lack of bugs and cultural tolerance/diversity are great, as well. You may be married, but the high number of attractive women doesn't hurt (unless your wife catches you stealing glances). If you're "stuck" coming here, at least try to come with a positive attitude about it. Otherwise you're nearly destined to become bitter and curmudgeonly like P-O-P.


Ironically, I just got this email today regarding the difference between CA and TX:

I can't wait to enjoy the beaches of Philadelphia! :)

http://www.destination-southern-cali...ages/beach.jpg

I know Leland must look forward to calling Feinstein and Boxer his home state senators.

Here is a new job for Leland right away! :)

Hey Rick, your comment alone would keep me from ever moving to Kalifornia. Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein and so on? Sorry but how you guys put up with them is beyond me.

Joe A

I hope it works out. FWIW the schools in Santa Monica aren't too bad, but they're in Santa Monica. That alone should be a show-stopper. I worked on Wilshire for about a year before I couldn't stand it anymore. Between the traffic (which is horrendous), the bums (which are everywhere), the pretentious douchebags (ubiquitous) and the crowds, I couldn't take it. The MILFs and the hottie nannies hanging around Whole Foods weren't too bad at lunchtime though.

Austin is very cool indeed. I'd seriously consider a move there if the opportunity came up.

Speaking first-hand as someone who works (most days) in Boston, there is one HUGE difference and that is the presence of a viable mass-transit system. On the days I go into HQ in Boston and I'm not out in the field, I ride on a train equipped with WiFi and either work on my side jobs, surf Pelican, listen to my mp3s, read a book or sleep. I arrive downtown well-rested and relaxed and only about a ten minute walk from the office. I can count on one finger the number of hours I've wasted sitting in traffic since I moved out this way. Did I mention the total number of traffic lights in my town? One. Uno. It's a delightful change from SoCal.

I'm certainly not saying you're wrong but different strokes. You've got a good situation and are able to enjoy the many positive things that exist in CA; nothing wrong with that. Rock on. I think that's great. However I'd also point out that for every yin there's a yang. There is a downside to diversity, there is a downside to urban living, there is a downside to having a "scene" and there is a downside to having everything jammed into one place. It becomes cacophonous and overwhelming. It's not necessarily a good thing and not necessarily a bad thing. I found it to be very spirit-crushing and oddly very inspirational (sometimes) at the same time.

To the 100/300 someone brought up - I'd disagree with this. I'd say it's definitely 100/200 or so, but 100/300 seems a bit much. My wife and I both made north of $100k for a time and we did okay. We certainly didn't do "great" and we still weren't really "getting ahead. We still weren't really positioned to foray out on our own and we still couldn't really afford what we consider a decent and normal existence (i.e. out of the urban rat-race, a place of our own, a yard, a little peace and quiet, etc.) The tax structure there eats up a LOT of income. And don't even get me started on entepreneurship - it's EXTREMELY difficult to justify paying the "barrier to entry" costs just to hang a shingle in CA. Contrast that to other states where the opportunities are just as good (if not better) and you have to ask why any sane person would seriously do business there. I know I won't - other than perhaps a very, VERY occasional side gig, for which I won't be keeping any kind of permanent presence or employees out there!

I would offer this for consideration - it was one of my justifications for deciding to set up shop there after grad school years back: Most of our expenses (like many other peoples') were fixed-dollar. Things like student loans, credit card bills, personal loans, car payments etc. (which we had all of after school) do not index themselves for geography. So given that, why not live in the place where you're going to get the most "raw dollars", even if the buying power of those dollars (because of cost of living) doesn't really put you ahead of anywhere else?

This strategy worked very well for a time - we were able to enjoy a quality of life comparable to (in many ways) what we might have been able to realize most other places all while paying out about the same percentage of total income as we might have anywhere else - however, because the dollars that were left after expenses were more in terms of raw quantity, we were able to pay off those fixed debt items more quickly. The flipside of this is that the "fixed dollar expenses" can't themselves have been indexed to CA's high cost of living in order to realize the benefit of this - ours happened to have been accrued during years in the midwest and in FL. It won't work if you buy stuff at CA's (inflated, over-taxed) prices - only if you buy it somewhere else, as we'd done with our stuff, our educations, etc. Going from those sorts of settings to CA certainly gave some "sticker shock" with respect to day-to-day costs, but the percentages allotted to various expenses weren't appreciably different than they'd been anywhere else.

The exception to that was housing. You WILL pay a fortune for housing (both in raw dollars and as a percentage of income) that is higher than other places, at least in my experiences - and you'll get less for it. We were lucky to do VERY well in our place in Long Beach (we paid considerably below market) but that was the exception not the rule, and we'd paid quite a high price in our previous place in West L.A. and even there we didn't do too terribly (although we certainly could have done better). The number of scumbag landlords renting what literally would be slum or condemned properties anywhere else in America is VERY high in CA. For the same as what we pay for a detached single-family property (with land, a BIG garage enough to park three cars and a ton of room left over for shop toys, an outbuilding, a well so no dependence on city water, a beautiful setting and so few people around you can actually see the stars at night) we got a "kinda" two-bedroom with one closet-sized bathroom and a crappy kitchen so tiny you couldn't even cook toast in it in CA. And don't even get me started on the garage/parking - we had to wait two full years before we had a garage space. Eventually I got two, but it took some serious finagling and expense.

Anyway enough of my stories and I don't want this to turn into a "why CA sucks versus why CA is great" thread. A lot depends on individual perspective and situation. Personally I'm glad for the experience. I had a lot of fun times out there. But I also realize that eventually a person needs to grow up, get serious about attaining what they want in life and put aside the faux pseudo-reality that so many people have convinced themselves is real in the plastic "paradise" of CA. I moved on. The circumstances of my move weren't the best, but as time goes on I'm realizing that perhaps they were exactly what I needed.