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-   -   Worst call in the history of baseball (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/545935-worst-call-history-baseball.html)

JavaBrewer 06-03-2010 07:50 AM

I feel for the umpire - he's human and is expected to make a mistake now and then. My son plays Pony league and there are bad calls in every game.

I would be open to the MLB having IR for play-off games as long as it's implemented with some restrictions (result is a run or game changing event).

lukeh 06-03-2010 07:56 AM

I think instant replay would actually speed the game up. Think about what happened after last nights "close" call. The manager runs out and they scream and yell for 5 minutes. With instant replay the manager would simply throw a red flag out of the dugout. To review that call last night would have taken all of 20 seconds. Heck, I'd guess those watching at home saw the instant replay before the manager even made it to the ump to start arguing.

I just don't see a downside with this. You can either get the call wrong and watch an ump and manager yell for 5 minutes or you can take 30 seconds to watch a replay and get a correct call. Give me the 30 second replay and correct call every time. In this day and age saying getting the call wrong and risk having the wrong team win the game or Worlds Series (K.C. / St. Louis) is part of the game is ridiculous. Other than being old fashioned I don't see the rational for accepting obviously blown calls.

Oracle 06-03-2010 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72 four door (Post 5384900)
I bet this does bring on the replay. Each teamshould get get 2 per game,or series. Damn shame this has happened. I wouldn't dought the comish steps in.

+1

That was proof that MLB needs to keep up with times and introduce replay.

Taz's Master 06-03-2010 08:11 AM

Gallaragga needs to read the letter Harvey Haddix received from a Texas A&M fraternity. It might help put things in perspective.

Super_Dave_D 06-03-2010 08:26 AM

Ok so we have established that no one is perfect :)

The question is - will MLB change the results???

m21sniper 06-03-2010 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 5384819)
Part of the game. If you don't like it, play shuffleboard.

Unfortunate but at least umpire Jim Joyce did the right thing and called after the game to apologize for blowing the call. Doesn't give the guy his perfect game, but still the right thing to do...

Yes a perfect game is the holy grail of MLB pitching but can anyone here name even five of the pitchers that have thrown them (without Googling)?

Perspective.

Roy Halliday just threw one this year.

As for other Phillies:

Steve Carlton and Robert Roberts have also thrown perfect games. Probably others, but those are the only 3 that i know of. It is EXTREMELY rare.

Super_Dave_D 06-03-2010 08:46 AM

I think only 20 perfect games have been pitched in the history of baseball....I mean 21 after MLB changes it.

mschuep 06-03-2010 09:21 AM

Bad call? Yes. Worst call ever? No. ( 1985 anyone :D )

Obviously the guy was out at first, but it wasn't the cleanest of plays...Also, the outcome of the game is the same. Sure, perfect game is the holy grail, only 20 in history, etc...but it didn't cost them the game, or the series, or the season.

I don't think Galaragga caught the ball cleanly at 1st...It hit the palm of the glove and popped forward, and then Galaragga managed to squeeze it at the tip of his glove (snowcone) and step on the bag.

After he touched the bag he double clutched and repositioned the ball in the pocket of his glove. I'm not saying the runner was safe, or trying to take anything away from the pitcher, he threw a hell of a game. I'm just sayin, that kind of bobble can break an umpire's concentration and make him think twice...and we are all human.

(1:05 into this video shows the replay that is closest to what the ump saw, IMO)

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Tobra 06-03-2010 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk (Post 5385239)
I think all involved acted with great dignity after the fact....Gallaragga especially.

This, and I quit following MLB after they cancelled the World Series due to greed

Where he caught it in the web of the glove, touched the bag, then sort of repositions it in his glove sure looks like a bobble, it ain't like catching a fly ball.

sammyg2 06-03-2010 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr (Post 5384784)
Out by at least a yard!... :confused:

Did you actually see the play? Do you understand how baseball is played?
the runner was out by a split second, a matter of maybe a foot.
Definitely not yards.

Joe Bob 06-03-2010 09:42 AM

As one who has umpired baseball and softball I have some comments. First, the camera angle does not show the position of the ball in the glove. The primary ump, has the call on the possession. If the ball is moving around, it's not considered to be is possession and thus not an out.

The secondary ump, the one in this case between 1st and 2nd base, has the call on the foot being pulled. Possession calls are not appealable, a pulled foot is, IF the coach asks for it. I don't see a pulled foot.

BTW, there is no such thing "as tie goes to the runner", you are either safe or out. If you are not out, you are safe.

If the pitcher did not have clear and solid possession, he's safe. The pitcher is not someone who gets 10-12 tosses a game at first base....so, looks like to me (at least) that there is some room for supporting a safe call.

McLovin 06-03-2010 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschuep (Post 5385461)

After he touched the bag he double clutched and repositioned the ball in the pocket of his glove. I'm not saying the runner was safe, or trying to take anything away from the pitcher, he threw a hell of a game. I'm just sayin, that kind of bobble can break an umpire's concentration and make him think twice...and we are all human.

(1:05 into this video shows the replay that is closest to what the ump saw, IMO)

Good video, I agree.

From the angle the ump had, it was probably a close call, and he made it the best he could. "He was out by a mile" etc. seems ridiculous. It does look like he was out, but it was a close call, esp. apparently from the ump's view.

I don't think they'll change the call, that would seem to be wrong. Umpire calls are umpire calls. That's part of the game. Sometimes an incorrect call goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. A bad call can just as easily give a pitcher a perfect game as it does take it away. That's life in baseball.

If they review and change this, why not review any perfect game? Like the one thrown by the As. Some of the called strikes that helped get that perfect game were probably really balls if looked at on video.

I don't think they'll ever have video review in baseball. Baseball is much more "tradition based" than football. Also, the sport isn't as well suited to video review, because too much happens after the call is made, in reliance on the call, you have runners running, a live ball, etc. etc.

Head416 06-03-2010 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super_Dave_D (Post 5385334)
Ok so we have established that no one is perfect :)

The question is - will MLB change the results???

Is there any precedent for that? (I don't follow baseball, so I don't know if that type of retroactive correction is normal.)

Joe Bob 06-03-2010 10:07 AM

Weeelllll, the George Brett/pine tar bat is one I can recall......

lukeh 06-03-2010 10:14 AM

I thought I'd point this out...There is precedence for MLB going back and changing things.

"In 1991, a panel headed by then-commissioner Fay Vincent took a look at the record book and decided to throw out 50 no-hitters for various reasons."

If the commissioner can go back and throw out 50 no-hitters then why can't a commissioner throw in a perfect game?

Schumi 06-03-2010 10:46 AM

There's a lot of St. Louisans reliving Game 6 after seeing this, that's for sure...

McLovin 06-03-2010 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukeh (Post 5385591)
I thought I'd point this out...There is precedence for MLB going back and changing things.

"In 1991, a panel headed by then-commissioner Fay Vincent took a look at the record book and decided to throw out 50 no-hitters for various reasons."

If the commissioner can go back and throw out 50 no-hitters then why can't a commissioner throw in a perfect game?

Well, to that specific question, that was a completely different situation. (I was curious about the "throwing out" of 50 no hitters, which seems very dramatic).

In that case, they didn't go back and throw them out because of blown calls, or anything that happened on the field. Instead, they redefined what a "no hit" game is. Under that new definition, 50 games didn't qualify:

The eight-man panel also re-defines a no-hit game as one which ends after nine or more innings with one team failing to get a hit, thereby removing 50 games from the list that had previously been considered hitless, including the 1959 performance of St. Louis Cardinals' Harvey Haddix, who pitched 12 perfect innings against the Milwaukee Braves, and Cincinnati Reds' Jim Maloney 1965 1–0 loss to the New York Mets in 11 innings. Another casualty is Boston Red Sox reliever Ernie Shore 27 straight outs on June 23, 1917, a game in which he relieved Babe Ruth after being ejected for protesting a walk to Ray Morgan, the first Washington Senators batter he faced. Morgan was thrown out trying to steal second, and Shore retired all 26 men he faces in a 4–0 win‚ getting credit in the books for a perfect game.

That obviously has no relevance to this current situation.

BUT, in reading various stories about the game and the call, it does appear that MLB and Selig believe they have the ability to alter the call. To me, that was the big hurdle. After what I've read today, I think there is a good chance the call will be reversed.

aways 06-03-2010 10:53 AM

I think the best solution is for each team to have ONE opportunity per game to ask for a replay review. It wouldn't slow the game significantly, and would hopefully avoid a mistake of this magnitude.

Taz's Master 06-03-2010 12:00 PM

including the 1959 performance of St. Louis Cardinals' Harvey Haddix, who pitched 12 perfect innings against the Milwaukee Braves,

Apparently they can change lots of things, because when Mr. Haddix threw that game he was pitching for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Heel n Toe 06-03-2010 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschuep (Post 5385461)
I don't think Galaragga caught the ball cleanly at 1st...It hit the palm of the glove and popped forward, and then Galaragga managed to squeeze it at the tip of his glove (snowcone) and step on the bag.

After he touched the bag he double clutched and repositioned the ball in the pocket of his glove.

I noticed that when I saw a segment on this during the sports portion of one of our local affiliates' 11 P.M. news, and it was pretty obvious in HD on our 32" screen... I was thinking, "Woah... how come no one is bringing this out?"

In retrospect, I wish I had switched over to Sportscenter to see how they covered it.


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