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can you hear me now . . ?

sounds like a lot of phones have this problem....arrrg Apple iPhone 4*Antennas... - AntennaSys Blog - AntennaSys, Inc. - antenna design, integration and consulting.

A lot?

seems that the thrust of the article was that antennas are traditionally near the top of the device. And now they claim "There is no way around this, it's a design compromise that is forced by the requirements of the FCC, AT&T, Apple's marketing department and Apple's industrial designers, to name a few."

Well the "this" was a choice to put the antenna on the EDGE of the device (and they are now selling that as if the FCC said it had to be on the edge)

Sounds to me that they (once again) put styling over function. . . .but hey, you prolly don't need that function much anyway. ;) --all those games and apps.

So what about those yellow brown screen artifacts?

My phone (BB) is a necessary appliance, not my life. Many, many people seem to treat a phone as the core of their existence - a bodily attachment that they can't put down, can't shut off - they NEED it - just like an addiction. I find it very amusing and very pitiful at the same time.

Ian

The thrust of the article is that if you hold the phone carefully it shouldn't affect performance too much. That is the conclusion he reaches at the end of the article. The author talked about how way back when all antennas were at the top of the phone. He specifically stated that due to the SAR rule many phones moved their antennas to the bottom of the phone. Apple wasn't the first to do so. I agree that apple probably put a bit to much into form over function, but there are issues and compromises with every phone on the market.

Steve Jobs responded to a query about the problem from one owner by saying: "Just avoid holding it in that way."

Apple issues advice to avoid iPhone flaw

Now that is a satisfying answer isn't it?

Ian

I agree. I find it pretty sad actually.

I totally agree! I guess the wink wasn't enough, I should have made the text green.

James: No worries, I got the wink . . . so the vent was general & not directed at you.

Ian

For me, it is a combination of cost, features and convinience. The biggest problem, the iPhone has always had some feature missing, that I can't live without. The list is getting shorter, but I also have an issue with the "central control" of the apps.

I use the same BB that I had when iPhone #1 was launched. It still does everything I need. I can phone, email, text & search Google if I want. I have never bought an app. I have saved money & I have the functionality that I need. Touch keyboards suck. Really, really suck. I have one on my GPS & it sucks too.

I am not a fruit hater - but I do hate the fruit addicts. And the insulting TV ads that tell me I'm an idiot.

Ian

I'm out of the office a lot more now than I used to be. Connecting my computer to the phone for Internet access is important. I've been doing this for at least 7-8 years. T-Mobile has always been much less expensive for data. I dropped AT&T in 2004 because they charged double for the unlimited data plan. Nothing has changed.

I'd be interested to see any side-by-side comparisons of web page load time with iPhone 4 vs iPhone 3G.

So then, if Johnny jumped off a bridge . ...

My HTC has it at the top. As have my two previous touch screen phones.

For sure. But smart designers weigh each of the metrics/features for a better balance than that. I mean c'mon, signal strength is a bit of a mission critical feature.

hmmm. . . actually I may be wrong about that. I mean as long as that shiny Apple logo is seen (when held up to the 'users' ear) then Apple has done their job. :cool:

I should also point to (as the article does) that having more than one antenna (w/in the device) has been done before too. ...not by Apple, but by some of the more innovative companies. :cool:

As I've said before, the way people use their device is changing -- not so much held up to the ear anymore (bluetooth ear pieces and all). So, that can change how people hold the device.

However... People know intuitively how to hold a device, esp when they have to back-stop the one mechanical button on the device. And then there is the one-handed operation mode. --where is the ergonomically intuitive grip then? ...left or right handed? ...but wait, isn't the BT antenna on the opposite side of the cell antenna? . . . ooops.

From what I've seen, people expect much better from Apple. A design decision like that, one might expect on a Chinese iClone . .. but not a 4th gen Apple product.

I will also add, that from what I know from my cell antenna design years, is that this concern about head radiation is being over-played by Apple. That is, much like a loud-speaker, an antenna engineer can shape and direct the the RF energy.

. . . moving it down a few inches, and to the edge, ALL (supposedly) to take advantage of the 1/R² relation is lame. --they could do more with shaping and directing the energy. (like so many others do)

The technical explanation for the variation in signal strength found when closing the iPhone's case gaps with one's fingers is, that the antennas are being "loaded". The loading from fingers, a material with a high relative permittivity of ~50 at 2 GHz, changes the input impedance and resonant frequency of the antenna resulting in loss.
If I had to take an educated guess, I suspect pressing one's fingers across the gap increases the gap capacitance and changes the feed input impedance and electrical length of the antenna. It is analogous to holding on to a piano wire with two fingers while it is being struck. Its resonant frequency will shift and its quality factor will drop, resulting in a sound that is off key and muffled.
A solution often employed in the field is to preload an antenna. Preloading is including a large permittivity in the design, so when a human puts it close to their body, there isn't a significant change. The down side of this is that it often reduces bandwidth and efficiency. So you can either have a great antenna that takes a hit when your fingers are near it or have one that is not quite as good but never changes. Isn't it like Apple to choose the former and like the masses to cry for the latter? ;)
Note that if the antennas were designed to be inside the case as opposed to being part of it, they would likely have a loss somewhere between the best (unloaded) and worst (loaded) performance of the existing antenna. It's all an engineering tradeoff.
The best solution is to not touch the antennas at the gap (Steve is right) or to buy a phone cover that keeps your high-permittivity sausages away from the RF sensitive areas. Apple made the trade off for you and in my opinion it is a novel and good one, provided it can survive the bad PR generated by the griping gap grippers.

all that shiny superior design goodness, and you want to cover it up with PLasTiC . . just so it will work? . . ..say it ain't Sooooo... nNOOOOooo. . . . :D


Yeah, trade-off's. Ever wonder why most cell-phones are designed (packaged) like they are ... as if they are intended to be around for only a year or two?

Actually, to iPhones credit, the battery design is just that - packaged knowing the phone isn't going to be around all that long. . ...and yet they design the externals so the consumer will equate the device longevity to that of say, a TAG Heuer. (tricky lil beotches);)

yea, maybe now I'll be able to actually order 1, cause they won't sell as many ... since i've been trying to get 1 with no luck.... my phone is a 2007 model and my wife remarked how good the battery still is, damn thing won't die.... also heard that Radio Shack will give 80$ bucks for it in trade in

A silver lining... Well, actually, it's a Stainless steel lining. But I'm sure you could get it plated in silver. ...before the plastic cover goes on. ;)

will it still be the thinnest?

what about wearing an iGlove when you hold the iPhone?

Good thinking Randy, but then the (cap-sense) touch screen won't work.

Maybe if people did the Michael Jackson thang . . one glove to hold, other bare hand to poke.

I should have known ... iGlove actually exists.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1277499046.jpg

and


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1277499233.jpg

among others.

Since u don't care what it looks like.... put a piece of duct tape over it, problem solved then you can put this behind u and enjoy the best phone out there:)

Try to get a response from any of the founders & CEO's of the phones that you like....... To which, Jobs replied with a typically short response:
Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way.

In a followup email, Jobs then expanded with this explanation:
Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.

the iPhone unit I’ve been reviewing. I can’t even reproduce it, no matter how hard I try. I’m sitting here right now. I’m wrapping my hand every which way — I’m even holding it with two fists, completely concealing the silver band around the edges — and my four-bar signal strength doesn’t waver. On Twitter, most of my followers seem to indicate the same thing; it’s a problem that just doesn’t exist for them," Pogue reports. "But clearly, the problem exists for some people. PC Magazine, for example, has been able to reproduce the problem. For them, it happens only if (a) your hand is somewhat sweaty and (b) you hold the phone in such a way that your fingers are covering all three black gaps in the stainless-steel band around the phone’s edge. (For this reason, left-handers seem to be the most-affected population.) In that configuration, signal strength drops a little." http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/25/the-mystery-of-the-iphone-death-grip/

damn - my idea for fame & riches... up in smoke

happens to the best of us..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1277529582.gif

Do you actually believe that?

I mean, even if one sets aside the inaccuracy of that statement, he's saying; Pay no attention to the fact that our new phone is worse . . just pretend that since 'they all do it' that it's not a problem, and the phones are all the same.

bet the next version (4Gs?) will have a different configuration.

actually I don't know what to believe, since I haven't experienced it 1st hand( neither have u), which I will if I can ever get my hands on 1... and I will report honestly what happens... my wife has a 3gs which is reported to have the same problem but we couldn't get it to do it, the 4gs will imploy the same "fix" as this one IMHO if it's actually a problem.... some people have said this or that about the 4, but I take it as a total package, who knows I may get burned, in my area AT&T is the only carrier that works ( believe it or not)so if it does have a problem I will know it right away, i'm anxious for Apple to put 1 or more of the other carriers on so that their lines can get overloaded... also I text more than anything else, I love it , loud music no problem, busy doing something else, just text, I probably text 75% of the time. I work my ass off entertaining other people, when I get home I want to be entertained, check stocks play music..etc phone calls while very important are not the most important for ME

Actually, I do know.

holding THIS is not going to have antenna signal attenuation . ..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1277490832.jpg

Unless you're holding it by it's antenna. ;)

years ago , when I was in the oilfield, I had the phone that you see in the movie "Hellfighters" sat on the transmission hump, before the 1 your showing, cost 1$ a minute and there were only 3 in my town, those were the days brother, almost as good as a Porsche

If we brought those bad boys back, we could stop building cell towers right now - they'll pull a signal from 4x the distance of the new, tiny phones. A buddy kept an old bag phone in his trunk until the companies went digital and it stopped working.

well, I went and got the 3gs and my older phone and tried to get them to drop reception and this time, not moving and in my house it did drop to 1 bar from 4 so I stand corrected, I did cover the entire back with my hand, ... ... then I went to youtube and there are many examples including 1 with an iphone 4 with the bumper on so it doesn't look like it's antenna attenuation... weird , in fact it did it exactly like the 3gs, how many other phones do this. ....... yea epbrown, that phone could be used anywhere now days with digital... edit: went back to youtube and found another video where the guy put on the bumper and it worked WTH is going on here.... update: 2 videos are saying that there is a problem or bug with the ios4 and Apple will be releasing a bug fix. My wifes 3gs has been updated to ios 4 hence the reason for her phone having the same problem as the iphone 4. the video says they believe this is the reason for Steve J "light" response ... I guess we'll see

Apple says; there's a software fix 4.01 on the way as early as monday. I will also upgrade the 3gs

Excellent. So then, with the new fix, when the signal drop rapidly, does the phone simple leave all of the bars up, or does it start vibrating wildly while flashing "YOU'RE HOLDING ME WRONG DUMBASS"?

. . .just curious. :D

LOL. don't know yet but I will report when I upgrade my 3gs( it didn't do it till upgraded)... as I don't have a friken 4.0 yet(try every night to get 1). It's funny some of the youtube videos didn't have this problem(overseas)

The Fix. . .

It's here!



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1277869851.jpg






oh, and. . ..

iPhone 4 antenna problems were predicted on June 10 by Danish professor -- Engadget

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1277869659.jpg

Apple today announced that it has sold over 1.7 million of its iPhone 4 through Saturday, June 26, just three days after its launch on June 24.