I think I bought a new car, maybe not
 

I have been looking for a new car for my wife for a week or so. She had decieded that she wanted a Ford Fuzion Hybrid. We looked at a few, but none of the ford dealer's wanted to deal on the hybrid's. So I figured I'd just wait awhile. Then we dropped in at the Mercury dealer and they wanted to sell a car. They didn't have a hybrid on the lot so they had one driven from one of their other lots about 30 miles away. It was loaded and listed for $34,325. We told the salesman that we didn't have to have anything today, but he said he would make us a good deal. Came back and said he would sell it at invoice, $29,800, I said fine. I did notice though that the list price on his paperwork for the car was around $32,000 something,

I didn't think much about the difference in the sticker price on the car and the price on the paperwork at the time. I figured they just bumped it up some.

I got home and was looking everything over and realized that the vin number on my receit does not match the car. I think that the other lot sent the wrong paperwork over and I was quoted for a different car. Also when they were going over the car with us, they called for the key code number to open the door and it wouldn't work. They had to pull the number from the computer and it was different from what they sent. I didn't think much about it at the time, but it goes with them mixing the cars up.

So now I have to get this worked out on Monday. They said this is the only hybrid they had left so I wonder if someone else ended up with the title to this car.

I can't imagine them not honoring the deal, but I won't pay another nickle just on principle.

They sold you a car, you agreed to the price, it's your car. Did they put the correct VIN on the DMV paperwork, which they probably won't send in. Good luck.

Something seems extremely fishy. I would undo the whole deal if I were you.

AFAIK, in most states you have 72 hours to do this... with no penalty to you whatsoever.

I would not do bidness with this dealer... and... this ain't the only car on the planet that your wife could be happy with.

I won't get any of the DMV paperwork till next week. I checked their website and the other lot that they own has the car with the vin # that is on my receipt, but $2,000 less list price. I can't imagine that a large dealership would not honor the deal. The car is sitting in my garage after all. Its not my fault that they sent over the wrong paperwork. Its just something else that I have to get taken care of.

At this point I really think that it was just a honest mistake in paperwork. I stopped by to look at a car that they didn't have. They had one sent over from one of their other dealerships. Then they emailed the invoice. I think they just sent the wrong invoice, both cars were white hybrids, just one had more options.

I'll just have to see what they have to say on Monday. If they take care of it, fine. I can't see how this would be good for them. We cant be talking about much more than 1500 to 2000 bucks. They can always have the car back. The wife is good with this.

Sounds like an honest mistake.

If it's honest, why would you make them honor the couple grand difference?

If you made the mistake, would you expect the dealer to take advantage of it?

Good point. The problem is that so many dealers have historically hosed consumers using deception that people feel that all is fair in dealing with them.

Still, that does not make it right. Every dealing, (and every dealer), should be given the benefit of being a unique situation. Having worked in the retail new car business, that's a huge and stupid mistake on the part of the dealer. The minute that VIN numbers don't match, you have the wrong car. A dealer might have a dozen red Civics or Accords, VINs are always physically checked when doing transaction paperwork.

I got a call a few weeks ago from my insurance company that AZ MVD had a non-matching VIN for my 993. Man, you don't want to let this go on for a while. Turns out the guy who physically inspected my 993's VIN when I first moved here and titled the car in AZ, well, he wrote down one digit incorrectly. Now I have a title with a VIN that's wrong and my insurance co. and MVD are fighting it out. I was able to renew my regist. two weeks ago, but have to carry around a note from MVD that says one digit is off and they're aware of the situation and trying to fix it. Unreal.

I plan on getting in touch with them monday morning. I have not driven the car since I brought it home Saturday. If they want the car back they can have it.

I would not go back on a deal myself. I have made a few mistake's myself in the past that cost way more than a few grand. But that just me.

I will not pay more for a car that I feel that I already made a deal on. I will pay more someplace else if I have to. If they have any integrity, they will honor the deal that they made.

But I won't hold them to it if it's just a honest mistake.

But I won't be buying any cars from them now or in the future, If they don't honor the deal. If they make it right, they will be the first ones I look at and recommend to my friends.

Sounds fair enough to me.

Sounds like a mistake, just get all the ducks in a row.....also double check the paperwork that all the loan percentages match if they screwed it up that far with the paperwork and you have to re-sign something......and make sure the old paperwork is destroyed in front of you (followed up by checking with the bank that there are not 2 loans in your name).....
I've dealt with honest dealers and very shady dealers......both looked identicle on the surface....

Is it possible that the other dealer sent them the wrong car? Maybe that dealer had more than one and while they faxed them the invoice for the $32K car, they sent down the $34K car. All the paperwork your dealer had was for the $32K car, so that's how they wrote it up, absent the car itself. They quoted you invoice, $29,800, on a car that was $32K. That was your agreement.

So if the car is actually $34K, they got the wrong car. Let them go get the $32K car with the correct VIN, and your deal should be square. That's the one you agreed to. If they can produce the right car, give them the wrong car back, no need to do paperwork, everything is as-agreed.

But we like the options that are on the car we drove and were presented. A big selling point that the salesman pushed was the navigation system and screen. We agreed to the car that we have, not a car we have not seen.

Our agreement was with the car we drove home.

great story...think there is a car salesman crying into his latte? please update us.

since you already have the car in your possession, if there was a mistake, it could get complicated.

The problem is I need the correct paperwork for title. It's a problem for me also.

oh man..just re-read that part!

how is that car anyways? $30k ish..is that more than a prius?

More than a Prius, it's more like the Camry Hybrid. It should get around 40 mpg, about 10 less than a prius. But its a bigger car.

Of course you like the additional options. Who wouldn't? This is where it gets fuzzy, for me anyways. Did they list the equipment that you were getting for $29k and it's on the car that's in your garage? And nothing additional is on the car you have in your garage? If there is in fact another car the same color w/ the VIN# that is on your paperwork and it actually has the equipment that was discussed when making the deal, then that is your new car. Not the one that you took home by accident. (Their accident).

It does not matter whether an unsuspecting salesman demonstrated the neato Navigation feature to you after the mistake was made, (but before anyone realised it). If you have the wrong car in your garage but just want to keep it because it's nicer, that makes you in the wrong, IMO.

When you say that you agreed to the car that you drove home, is that because it is exactly what you agreed to pay $29k for? Or does it have extra, *bonus features* on it?

Mistakes happen at dealers all the time. At least they used to when I worked at them. If they *rolled* you in the wrong car by accident, you'll have to bring it back. I guarantee it. If you play tough, you won't have to worry about not giving them your business again. They won't ever let you on their property. :cool:

EDIT: Just re-read the original post. (Never a bad idea). The way that the car was presented to you tilts it back in your favor, big-time.

Another tidbit is we were told that this was the only hybrid they had, so of coarse if we wanted one, this was it.

I'm tempted to call the other dealership monday first just to see if they have any. We didn't buy the car for that reason, but I know its a ploy to get people to buy.

I understand what you're saying but there is a big difference IMO between little white lies that salesmen tell, ("this is the last one)", and material misrepresentations.

For those who have worked at a dealership. Is $1,500 to $2000 really that big of a deal. Sure they may not make what they wanted on the car but would they really not honor the deal?

Isn't it more like "bait and switch"?

They showed me a piece of paper that listed the invoice price. Circled it and said this is what I could buy the car for. No one went over a option list or anything else. It was clear that I was buying the car that I test drove and was the only one there. Then they had the car washed and the salesman went over the operating features.

As I said, I think the other dealership simply sent the wrong paperwork over to this dealership. I don't know if the other car is even still there.

I bought the car because I thought the price was good for that car. I did not have to have a car that day.

I really have no reason to not think that they wont make this right. I'll know more tommorrow. I'm hoping it won't be a hassle.

Dealerships have to at least cover expenses...if they didn't, they wouldn't exist.

While that is true, I'm sure they make more on some deals than other's. When I was in construction I would bid jobs. I always planned to make money, but if I didn't on one job I would hope that I would make it up on the other's.

That's a good question; when times are good, $2k is not the end of the world for a decent-sized dealership. It's more the principle of the thing, also $2k is not an insignificant amount of money in any case. What I can't believe is how small the profit margins have gotten--when I sold cars 20+ years ago, a $32/34k MSRP car would have had an invoice of maybe $26k. IOW, 18-20% profit @ MSRP.

Times have changed. :cool:

Please update the thread tomorrow, I'm sucked into this story now...

New Merc.........
 

I don't know if you heard, but Ford has announced that they are dropping the Mercury line. Since this would make your new car something of an orphan, I thought you would want to know.

Thank's, I know. I figured thats why they were willing to deal more than the ford dealer. The car is basically the same as a ford fusion.

It sounds like they sold you the car for the actual invoice of another, so in essence would be selling you the car you got for $1,500-2,000 below invoice. They probably have about $1,000 in holdback on a $34,000 MSRP car, I would guess. So your deal is probably $500-1,000 in the red, unless they have some other incentives on the car, which they probably do (flooring and advertising assistance, for example). If you're allowed to keep the car, they will be required to issue corrected paperwork with the right VIN.

My gut feeling is it should be your choice whether or not to keep the car. Their offer was their mistake, but it was on the car they presented to you. You dealt in good faith on the offer they made. It should be up to you if you want to give it back to them. I very well could be wrong- don't know the laws in Missouri (or even California, in this situation). You probably can find out by talking to the department of the Missouri DMV which oversees dealers.

In California, if a dealer took a car back that had been delivered, it would be a "rollback" and have to be re-sold as used. That will substantially decrease the value to the next customer, which would mean it might just make sense to take the loss with your purchase. Did you buy anything from them besides the car, trade in anything, or finance it? If you did, they could retain the profit from those aspects of the deal.

If the dealer does have the right to rollback the deal, you could try and re-negotiate for a higher price than you paid. It doesn't have to be the invoice amount of the car you got, it could be something mutually acceptable. Dealers hate rollbacks.

It would not be a "rollback" if the dealer never filled out registration paperwork for that vehicle. He just took it for a long test-drive.

Interesting point, but the dealer would have to in-effect commit fraud to sell the car again as new. At least that's how I'd think a DMV investigator would look at it. The car was delivered and operated without a dealer plate and a borrowed car agreement.

Wouldn't you get a better warranty if you took it as a rollback? CPO warranties are often better then new ones.

Yes, $1500 to $2000 is a big deal. That's way more than the average gross profit on a new car sale (all the way back including hold-back and other funny money). Right now the national average gross for Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealers is a little under $1000. Yes, that figure is correct.

That's GROSS profit. There are so many expenses to be paid from that it would make your head spin. The 'average' dealership has about $200,000 in fixed and semi-fixed expenses each month.

Could they lose $2000 and stay in business? Sure. Most new car departments LOSE money each month, what's a little more. If it weren't for used cars and the service department, dealerships would close. Selling new cars is just a mechanism for building service business (warranty work if nothing else) and taking profitable used cars on trade.

So, enough numbers, if you think they're wrong and take a stand that's your business and your decision. They can't force you to re-sign any paperwork. You can't force them to sell you the car you're driving for that price. Neither of you have a binding deal right now. You can bring them back their car and watch them tear up the paperwork, then you can leave and never go back there.

Not true. Denis is correct. A mistake is not fraud.

Mr Cummins is in STL not Kalifornia. They just file a 'did not buy / did not sell' form and everything is reversed. California is the only state I'm aware of that has such a ridiculous roll-back policy. And why cars are generally more expensive there.

I called the dealership at 9:00 this morning. I informed them the the vin# did not match the paperwork and I also had emailed them the information.

They said they would look into it and call me back, it's 11:30 now.

Keep us posted...I'm sure you will...;)

This is correct. I wonder if things were reversed what would happen? If I had paid the invoice amount for a different car that was in the dealers favor? I would hope that they would offer me an out.

I am the one that found the problem. I could just as easily put a few thousand miles on the car and bring it to their attention in a month, when the temp. tags expire. Or they figure it out themselves.

I just feel that when I make a deal and shake hands on it, it should be honored. If they want out, that's fine. I can buy a car somewhere else.

So what's the scoop?

They said that I had the wrong car. That I could come and get the one that matched the paperwork. I said that was not the car that I was shown and bought. Then they said if I wanted to keep the car, I should pay them $1900. I said no, they came back and said it was a mistake on their part and would do the deal if I paid them another $1,000. They said with the holdback this would mean that they would not make any money on the deal. I understand where they are comming from, but I still feel that they made a deal on the car they presented to me, and I won't pay any extra. They said they will have to check with the owner because they cant make the decision to sell a car at a loss. There was also a $200 administration charge so if they are telling me the truth, we are actually talking about a $800 loss for them.

I still havn't heard back from them. I am prepared to take back the car and cancel the deal. I can buy the car I want somewhere else and it will probably cost me $1000 more than just giving them $1000 for this car. Paying the invoice price is not that difficult evidently. I checked around.

So if they honor the deal, I will have good things to say and recommend them to my friends. I still believe that they will come through.