V8 Miata - what do you think of this car?
 

Hi folks

I am looking for a toy and found this one while browsing:

1990 Mazda MX-5 Miata v8 - City of Toronto Collector Cars For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto

I have an 85 MR2 that is a good little car and the fellow would consider a trade + cash on above. I have owned a mustang 5.0 many years ago as well as two Miatas. The Miata was a blast to drive in a different way than the stang but did not have that get up and go that I would like. This car seems to have both (allthough the wheels are too bling and would be changed) and I wonder if any of you have been in anything similar.

Please give me your thoughts on this car.
Reg

V8 MX-5s? Old news.

Bullet Cars: Supercharger Kits & Installation, Performance Parts, and manufacturers of the Bullet V8 Supercar

;)

or the monster miata....

...but what is your thought about that car specifically. I have seen the Monster Miata sight. Obviously the car is heavier and I wonder if the weight up front would have a clumsy effect on the car.

WTF is up with that steering wheel?

I think you would be disappointed. They strike me as a modern day Shelby Cobra, albeit a bit more refined. All power and no handling.

I have never driven one, but I did have a chance to play along with one last summer on some local back roads. I was just tooling along in my 911 when this Miata comes out of nowhere and blasts on past me, making a most un-Miata like racket - a very distinctive V-8 bellow. So I gave chase. I damn near rear-ended him going into every corner and, had it been a racetrack, would have had no trouble out braking him and getting around him in any corner. We finally came to a passing zone with two lanes heading our direction, and I had no trouble just driving right on around him. He didn't have a prayer after that, started trying way too hard, and damn near lost it on several occasions. So I just pulled over and let him by, hoping he would quit pushing it.

Anyway, it looked like quite the ill-handling, overpowered little beast. I had the chance to observe both from behind and from in front (a little tougher in the RVM) and came away very much less than impressed. I'm convinced a stock Miata would have had little trouble with it either. Maybe a passable drag car, but not much good for anything else.

I think all of the cars that have been completely redesigned in some guy's garage should be considered experiments. If you want a unique project to jack around with, than knock yourself out.

If it were me, I'd just buy the 5.0 Mustang that was designed to hold that engine.

dunno, I think I'd pass unless you are looking for a project.

I'd love to have a monster Miata. This car doesn't look too bad from the pictures. The steering wheel is an easy swap as is the e-brake handle. The hood is fugly but may look better in person. The engine bay looks half way decent though I'd like to inspect the motor and tranny mounts and welds.

I'll take one of these:
Flyin' Miata : V8 conversions : turnkeys and tradeins
Who needs an iron lump, when you can get a real performance motor with much less weight.

My friend Roger had a monster Miata...about the only thing I recall him saying was that it overheated easily and often.

There are lots of cars out there that make that kind of HP stock or mostly stock... Probably much more reliable as well.... Especially in the price range....

FWIW, Roger said the monster miata was a gas to drive...but nothing he did (larger aluminum radiator, etc.) would keep the temps at sane levels.

i was more like a modern Sunbeam Tiger

When I built my V8 914 I was told it wouldn't handle well, it would be too heavy, it wouldn't be reliable, all sorts of things.

You know what? it was fast. It handled great once I got the suspension dialed in, better than a stock 914 ever did.
It was also reliable.

I say go drive the darned thing and make up your own mind. Don't listen to guesses or hunches.
5 minutes and 5 corners and you should know whether that car is right for you or not.

One of my track buddies just finished his V-8 powered Miata racecar.
Essentially a Spec Miata with a V-8 at this point. No additional suspension development.

Runs on 225/15's and does sub 1:48's at Infineon.
Do your research.


KT

I had a similar car - it was a V8 transplant into a small car, 330hp and around 2200 lbs, professionally built and done right.

I had fun with it for several years, esp. during the first year, but eventually got bored with it. No problem with the handling, etc., in fact no problems or real mechanical complaints at all.

I think for me, at the end of the day, the SBC just isn't "me." I think it's a fine engine, it just doesn't have the right feel to me.

And, there is not much use for that much power and acceleration on the street. I have a LOT more fun in my stock old G50 Carrera, where I can actually redline the car every now and then, push it and feel like I'm working it a bit without totally trashing speed and sanity laws. And it just sounds/feels a lot better to me.

As a race car on a track, my car would have been a blast. On the street, it was fun, but it was so limited that it ended getting boring.

You talking about Dean? I saw that beast Saturday, it is pretty impressive.

I would build and drive a V-8 914 in a heartbeat. We used to have one up here that was a regular at our DE's. Damn fast little car; well sorted with great brakes and good handling. The difference, though, is all that weight was added to the middle of the car.

+1 for the LS all-aluminum fuel-injected GM small block.

Why you'd want a carburated iron-block V8 in that car is a mystery.
The LS motors add about 50 pounds to the nose of the Miata, compared to stock NA, and not too different than the factory turbo Mazdaspeed
You also wouldn't need the fugly hood. The LS tucks under the factory hood just fine, with room for a brace.
Visit LS1Tech.com and look at their 'swaps' subforum. Lots of Miatas there getting 500hp ;)

Yes. Nice car and a great driver!


KT

FYI, an Aluminum LS1 V8 doesn't weight much more than an iron block Miata I4.

Talking to Dean last weekend, his car is about 300lbs heavier than a Spec Miata, but some of that is transmission, rear axle, and a beefier cage.

He also turned a ~1:55 at Thunderhill, for comparison the Spec Miata pole is generally around 2:05.

I can't wait until he gets the suspension sorted.

Good ones have been known to take FTDs at autocrosses. I would have a good one, but then I have a supercharged NA to boot around.

Fun cars. Monsters usually go for more than that one. Sounds like it has a few issues. Like 911s, it may be that all monster Miatas are 20,000.00 cars.

Thank you all for the feedback on this one. I figure I could get the car possibly for $10k plus my car (which owes me zippo) so the dollars may look more attractive then. That said, I am a little worried because it is not a monster miata kit - just a transplant.

sorry about the pasted caps:

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BETTER ABOUT THE FRONT SUSPENSION. THEY ARE MUCH BIGGER COILS AND STRUTS. THEY ARE AN UPGRADE FOR A MAZDA PICKUP. NOT JUST A FLIMSY MIATA UPGRADE. YOU REALLY MUST SEE THIS CAR IN PERSON TO TAKE IT ALL IN. LOTS OF DIFFERENT PARTS FROM VARIOUS VEHICLES. THE FRONT BRAKE SETUP CAME OFF OF A 1988 CORVETTE. THIS IS WHY THE WHEELS ARE SO BIG. ALTHOUGH YOU CAN DOWNSIZE THEM A BIT IF DESIRED.

All the necessary welding of plates/ frame ties is complete. the front suspension is great. its dampening adjustable to whatever stiffness you prefer. car handles great, it hugs the road and is very responsive. surprisingly the tires do not rub. i do Not do any crazy turns or race this car. it is my DD and i keep it at that.


I'd put a Prototipo wheel on it straight away. The owner seems like a straight shooter - all around nice guy. I'm thinking about it further over the weekend. Still have to get the wife to agree too. The Mustang may be a better idea as the kids and Mrs. can fit in too.

Thanks again!

I would be afraid of it after looking at the ad. A good quality conversion kit that is engineered for the car would make me feel better about it. It's built on a 20 year old car so it seems very expensive and would probably be a big problem to figure out if something goes wrong.

How much Mustang convertible could you buy for 15k and have a much better car. My brother has a Mustang GT and has been a fun fast car. Plus the after market for Mustang performance parts is huge.

The Mustangs at the track are fast with some modifications. I rode in one and was impressed. This car just looks to be a money pit. Of course all of the above is JMHO:D

Nice! Any links to whomever does this?

....then again, I'm old school in the end.

If you want a Miata, get the Miata R.

If you want a V8, get the 2011 Mustang or a Corvette. Or any other V8 variant out there.

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=12905374&amp;server=vimeo.co m&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_port rait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=12905374&amp;server=vimeo.co m&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_port rait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/12905374">LS1 Miata - Race at Infineon - June 27th, 2010</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user2982684">Dean Thomas</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Wow. The car seems to easily overtake everyone! Thanks for the video.

Here's Dean's (dtfastbear's) build thread on LS1Tech.com (I've been there 10 years):

Just another Miata swap - building a race car with a V8Roadsters kit - LS1TECH

Here is the company that supplied his kit / crossmembers:

V8 Roadsters LSx Conversion Company

My cousin has a supercharged 94 miata pushing 8 psi. of boost. It's a really fun little car, but nothing like the V-8 beast in that video above.

Factor in the plausibility that a reasonable Miata can be bought for a little over a thousand bucks, this whole conversion might very well be a bang-for-the-buck steal. SmileWavy

When I saw Jeff's first post in this thread, I thought I would not have to add my observations. Then when I saw this one, I decided to weigh in. While I would expect that a V8 914 would outperform a V8 Miata, and while a V8 914 would be ferocious on the straights, we have not seen a V8 914 outperform a regular 914 at Autocross. Sure, they have way more power, but the weight is too high.

You haven't seen the right 914/8s then. An iron lump? Sure. Aluminum? Weight really isn't the issue, they're pretty close.

Tight autocrosses don't really favor more power. Racetrack? Different story.

A V8 914 sounds pretty wicked. What would a decent one go for that's rust-free (enough)?

The biggest issue with V8 914s is the transmission. Most people cheap out and just use the stock 914 5 speed. That makes for a crap drive. The gearing is simply all wrong. A transmission designed for 80 lbs of torque is all wrong for a car putting out 300 lbs of torque. It's silly. And, you can't drive it very aggressively for very long before it blows. (No fun worrying about blowing the trans every time you floor it).

The problem is there is no really cheap solution. To get a reinforced 911/930 trans (either a regeared and reinforced 915 or a 930 box) plumbed into the car and shifting is a fairly expensive proposition. All 911/930 transmissions are designed for a rear engined car, with the tail of the trans facing the front of the car. In the mid engined 914, the trans is reversed and the tail now faces the rear. You gotta use a kit or otherwise figure out how to rework the shift linkage. Tp get it all going is generally $6-10K expensive.

Oh, and the chassis should be stiffened, too, suspension done and bigger brakes.

Most 914 V8 conversions are done on the cheap, someone just buys an adaptor kit, drops out the stock VW engine, drops in the V8, hacks in the radiator and hits the road. That, in my experience, is not a fun car to drive.

So is there a market value for a 914/8 with a properly shifting tough trannie that's sorted?

IMO it's a completely unpredictable market. Right now, the market in general for almost all fun cars is in the toilet. This is esp. true for any kind of modified car. (Some cars, like 356, early 911, collectible pre-73 Ferraris, etc. are actually doing quite well).

The thing with a 914-8 is they are all be definition very personalized cars. Paint, bumper treatment, flare style, interior style, are all different. If you have a car mechanically done right, and find a buyer that likes the "style" of the car, it would probably fetch some decent money.

The other thing is with 914-8s the quality and level of the conversion varies hugely. No 2 cars are alike or even really directly comparable. For instance, almost all are flared. This ranges from fiberglass Chalon style flares, to homemade flares, genuine steel GT flares, glass GT, etc. Proper chassis reinforcement, no chassis reinforcement, etc. All aluminum injected engine, iron block/alum heads engine, carb, how the radiator is designed and installed, etc.

One done "all out" would be a very cool car. This would be a properly reinforced chassis (factory GT style weld in kit) and half roll hoop welded in, factory GT flares, 911 suspension, 930 turbo brakes, factory style GT fiberglass bumpers, 930 4 speed (or even the '89 930 5 speed), all aluminum injected SBC, stock looking GT style interior, and a first class, clean install. To me, that car would be worth up to $30K. It would probably cost $60K or more to have professionally built.

But, in general, I'd say the majority of 914-8s out there sell for $6-$12K and are very poor to mediocre cars that most buyers end up not being happy with long term

Well said, and spot on McLovin