My uncle fell out of a tree.

[m21sniper]

Monkey rolls are a key facet of, (drum roll), monkey style kung fu.

Have ya heard of that?

Here, let me help you with your google search, since you had a problem getting hits:

http://www.google.com/search?q=monkey+roll%2C+monkey+style+kung+fu&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

[nostatic]

uh, yeah, I know about monkey style. Had two of the top practitioners in the country at the tournament I was at last month do exhibitions. Pretty odd but amazing style.

Did you read the links on your search? The first one is a computer gaming site:

Journey of Maou Shan | MONKEY STYLE KUNG FU | Obsidian Portal

Another I found does have info on monkey style, but the forms do no call out a "monkey roll" but rather there is a move called "royal monkey rolls on the ground." Of course it depends on the translation (I can ask my g/f to read the characters) but to reiterate, I've never heard of a "monkey roll" in any style I've studied or seeen. Monkey style? Yes. Are there rolls? Yes. But whereas I did study monkey paw strikes (inner and outer), monkey blocks and various monkey kicks, the rolls were just "rolls." I don't claim to be an expert, but that's my experience with it...

[m21sniper]

I have heard the term monkey roll used in relation to monkey style kung fu for decades. I don't know what to tell you that the google links didn't.

The google search i did had numerous hits including to wikipedia, why you only read the first, i do not know.

"“The monkey incorporates these techniques. You see so many rolls and ground attacks in monkey style, and only in monkey style. The Tiger doesn’t have many. The Praying Mantis has very few, and so on.”"

http://brooklynmonk.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/wrestling-the-monkey-master/

[nostatic]

Where in the wikipedia article on drunken monkey do you see a reference to the term, "monkey roll"? And in fact, if you search with "monkey roll" in quotes (to get that term), the first hit is a video of a monkey doing kung fu, and the second is this thread (!)

[m21sniper]

You know that there are rolls in monkey style.

What would you call a monkey style kung fu roll......

Oh, right.

"“The monkey incorporates these techniques. You see so many rolls and ground attacks in monkey style, and only in monkey style. The Tiger doesn’t have many. The Praying Mantis has very few, and so on.”"

Wrestling the Monkey Master « Brooklyn Monk in Asia
__________________

As far as the wiki article, it says it right on the summary page:

"... Much of the moves are performed at a low ground level, with rolling"

http://www.google.com/search?q=monkey+roll%2C+monkey+style+kung+fu&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Cimg%20src=%22ultimate/redface.gif%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22%22%20tit le=%22Embarrassment%22%20class=%22inlineimg%22%20/%3Efficial&client=firefox-a

And yet again, from "the essence of monkey" page:

Angles of Attack

"As already mentioned, the monkey attacks from any position. Drills are used to have students lying on their backs, rolling, jumping, attacking off of a tree truck in the yard or sitting in a chair. "

http://www.kareempanton.net/index.php/kung_fu/styles/monkey/monkey_essence

[nostatic]

Right - and nowhere is it referred to as a "monkey roll" - well, except on this thread and in MMA forums...

Maybe semantics, but just trying to get clear on the source of the term. Yes, there are rolls in monkey style, but no one I have studied with called it a "monkey roll." You are using it as a term of art but seems it is more of a colloquial term.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by nostatic

...and in fact, if you search with "monkey roll" in quotes (to get that term), the first hit is a video of a monkey doing kung fu, and the second is this thread (!)

Awesome!!!

[trekkor]

Rolling or not, monkeys are dirty...


KT

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Right - and nowhere is it referred to as a "monkey roll" - well, except on this thread and in MMA forums...

Maybe semantics, but just trying to get clear on the source of the term. Yes, there are rolls in monkey style, but no one I have studied with called it a "monkey roll." You are using it as a term of art but seems it is more of a colloquial term.

Not "maybe" semantics....

If you're doing a monkey form or fighting in a monkey style, and roll, it's a monkey roll.

Obviously.

Just as if you're doing a tiger form (or a monkey form), and strike with a tiger fist, it is called -drum roll- a tiger strike (or a monkey strike). Though the actual title for the particular strike might be something like "Tiger through the mountain"- a specific move that, odds are, you've never heard of either. A specific monkey strike that you've most certainly never heard of either is "monkey steals the peach".

Or if you're doing karate, and kick someone, it's a -drum roll- karate kick, even though the precise kick may have another name, like "flying side kick", it is still a karate kick.

I had no idea you are so easily confused nostatus. Are you even aware that the tai chi you practice is one of the internal soft styles (Pa Qua and Yin Yang are 2 others), and is considered one of the most devastating fighting systems in all of kung fu? Most people who do Tai chi have no clue that is the case, and even if they do, have even less of a clue what the moves they're learning represent, or how they should be used in a fight. This includes many (if not most) tai chi instructors.

BTW, if you do a tai chi strike, even though the specific move may have a flowery name (and almost all of them do), you're still doing a....drum roll....tai chi strike.

Now if you're done clinging to the most minute of minutia (or more likely, just F'in with me)...

[Rot 911]

I have never seen a monkey roll, but I have seen a monkey fling poo.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

I have never seen a monkey roll, but I have seen a monkey fling poo.

Right here in this thread, even.

[m21sniper]

A useful and specific real world application/example for/of a monkey roll would be when you are facing 2 opponents charging at you from the front. If you split and roll between them and then break into a sprint as you come to your feet, by the time they spin around and start to give chase you will already be several yards away and at a dead run retreating as fast as you can.

It will be much harder for them to catch you...if the move works. A monkey roll can often catch an opponent completely off guard.

Another specific application might be in rolling at a backpedaling or stunned or off balance opponent, and executing a low sweep or another move like the aforementioned "monkey steals the peach" as you roll back onto your feet.

Monkey rolls also work great to get you out of a corner, provided you deny your opponent his center before executing the move.

You know, if there was such a thing as a monkey roll, that is...

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

No kidding...if falling with a chain saw, do you damnedest to be sure the saw lands in a spot away from you.

We had a call a few yrs ago, a 70 yo man was up about 30 ft on an extension ladder cutting branches with a chainsaw. One of the branches swung down and knocked the ladder out from under him. he landed on the ground on his back, and the chainsaw landed on his thigh with his hand still squeezing the trigger. He was knocked unconcious and the saw cut 3/4 through his leg. Right through his femur and femoral artery. We ended up having to medevac him to the local trauma center he died from massive blood loss.

You'd be amazed at the number of accidents lke this( people falling out of trees while trimming them.) that we get calls for.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I had no idea you are so easily confused nostatus. Are you even aware that the tai chi you practice is one of the internal soft styles (Pa Qua and Yin Yang are 2 others), and is considered one of the most devastating fighting systems in all of kung fu? Most people who do Tai chi have no clue that is the case, and even if they do, have even less of a clue what the moves they're learning represent, or how they should be used in a fight. This includes many (if not most) tai chi instructors.

Wow, really?!? You can use it to fight?!?!? I guess all those years actually studying those arts were lost on me, especially the tai chi fighting set I was doing last night in class. I should read more MMA forums

btw, it isn't "Yin Yang." I think you're referring to Xing Yi (or the older Romanized spelling Hsing I - and I actually studied that for about a year a few decades back). Yiin/yang is not an internal martial arts form but rather a central tenet of Chinese philosophy.

See, here is your problem. You either don't know what you're talking about because you learned this stuff on some web forum, or you're lazy/imprecise with your language, which makes people think you' don't know what you're talking about (because you learned it on an some web forum).

[m21sniper]

I did Northern Hung Gar Kung Fu for almost 10 years (long since given up as i viewed it to be inferior to "street fighting" in the real world). My cousin is a Northern Hung Gar (as well as a Pa Qua) 'master.'

Yin Yang (aka "Taoist kung fu") is 'slang' for an internal Kung Fu style and ALSO a kung fu stance (aka "short bow" stance).

"The Taoist ideologies and the Yin-Yang theory are the meditative guidance and philophical basis for practicing the Taoist kung-fu at an advanced level, namely Internal Style Kung-fu."

Taoism and Yin-Yang Theory

That page and quote is written by the Australian Taoist kung fu society.

How many times are you planning to be wrong (or more specifically, cling to minutia) in one thread? You obviously know far less about Kung Fu than you THINK you know. How you're going to sit here and tell me you've never heard of a monkey roll and purport to be ANY kind of an authority on Kung Fu is utterly ridiculous.

PS: I am often "imprecise" with my language as 99% of the population can easily grasp the terms i've been using in this thread without clinging to sheer minutia. If you're doing monkey style kung fu and execute a roll, you just did a monkey roll. Now if you want to go find the proper Chinese phrase for monkey roll and post it here, feel free, but for almost everyone, "Monkey roll" is a perfectly descriptive and accurate term for what i'm talking about, which is a monkey style kung fu roll.

As another example, the 'correct' kung fu term for internal energy is "Chi", but one can say "internal energy" and say the same thing without using the 'correct' term, as most people have no idea what in the hell Chi is anyway, whereas anyone can grasp the term "internal energy."

What is the Chinese term for "Trolling moderator?"

[nostatic]

Sorry, Snipe, but you're just wrong.

Taoism and yin/yang are Chinese philosophies (well, actually Taoism is more of a religion, yin/yang a concept) - they don't exist just for the martial arts.

The three main internal arts are Tai Chi (Taiji), Pa Kau (Ba Gua) and Hsing I (Xing Yi). Anything beyond that has been likely made up by some teacher along the way. That actually is a very common occurrence as these styles migrated to the west. Those three arts have a long history.

My being a moderator has nothing to do with trying to correct some of your incorrect comments. But I'll stop now - I've made my point.

[m21sniper]

Nope, i'm not wrong from a practical standpoint.

Taoist Kung fu is Hsing I, is Yin Yang. They are just different terms for the same thing. Yin Yang is also another name for a stance that is also called "Short Bow" (which is, obviously, a modified and shortened version of the "long bow" stance) I am sure that there is a "correct" chinese word for these stances, but i don't know that one either, sorry.

Many kung fu stances have numerous names. One example being "lady horse," which is also known as "scissors stance."

Just as "Karate Kick" is a perfectly acceptable umbrella term for any of the Karate style kicks, "Monkey roll" is just another term for any of the monkey moves that involve a roll, of which there are many. I do not purport to know the exact names of most of those moves, and neither would anyone else if i used them in any case.

Specific example: "Pretty lady" is a specific kung fu blocking move, but no one would know what i was talking about if i said, "execute a pretty lady manuever", so for simplicity sake, one could very accurately state, "execute a kung fu block."

Kung Fu is not even correct, if you really want to delve into minutia...which you obviously do.

[nostatic]

No, "Taoist Kung Fu" is *not* Hsing I. Hsing I has a set of strikes, blocks, and forms that is generally accepted by the community. The "Taoist Kung Fu" that you linked to is an agglomeration of various bits and pieces. They are not the same. Similarly, yin yang is *not* Hsing I. Yin/yang is a concept in Chinese philosophy that sees reification/application in martial arts.

They are not different terms for the same thing - and we're not even into the minutae. But if you're going to insist that they are, then I can't help you.

[m21sniper]

"I can't help you" is exactly where i'm at with you too.

Clearly we have reached an impasse that can only be settled via a duel at 10 paces...

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

"I can't help you" is exactly where i'm at with you too.

Clearly we have reached an impasse that can only be settled via a duel at 10 paces...

Snipe - When a person such as yourself knows so much about a subject, as in this thread, you owe it to yourself to be very precise in your language, terms, and grammar. Especially when discussing a subject with another expert. Precision in language will enhance your presentation/argument!

That being said, I know nothing about the subject matter in the latter part of this thread.

Best,
Tom