Take our jobs, please!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Interesting, but ultimately a smoke-and-mirrors campaign by illegal sympathizers. While it might initially appear to be a validation of the argument that "illegals do the jobs Americans won't", it really just underscores the fact that the agribusiness industry is really the reason for illegal immigration in the first place and has gotten exceptionally greedy (and dependent upon) artificially low-cost labor. The comparison of American salary expectations to illegals' salaries (who deliberately undercut them) is not apples-to-apples.

Read on...

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United Farm Workers invite Americans to 'Take Our Jobs' - Jul. 7, 2010

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Farm workers: Take our jobs, please!
Most farm workers in the U.S. are illegal immigrants, but a union representing these workers has offered their jobs to Americans.
By Aaron Smith, staff writer
July 10, 2010: 1:14 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Facing growing anti-immigrant rhetoric, the United Farm Workers union is challenging Americans to take their labor-intensive, low-paying farm jobs. [as in, "the same rate we pay the illegals, not what people SHOULD be paid to do these jobs...]

As communities nationwide grapple with tenacious unemployment, migrant workers are often accused of stealing jobs from Americans. The union believes this accusation is without basis, and intends to demonstrate this with a newly-launched campaign called "Take Our Jobs."

"Farm workers do the work that most Americans are not willing to do," said union president Arturo Rodriguez in the announcement of the campaign. [the critical part of that statement that he's leaving out is "AT THAT PRICE"]

At least half a million applicants are needed to replace the immigrant workforce, so the union has posted an online application for Americans who want to work on a farm.

Through its Web site, at www.takeourjobs.org, the union promises to connect applicants with farm jobs in their area. [and naturally the union won't stand to gain anything from this, right?]

Since June 24, at least 4,000 people have responded to the application, said Rodriguez. Some are serious responses and others are hate mail. "Only a few dozen have really followed through with the process," he said.

Most applicants quickly lose interest once the reality sinks in that these are back-breaking jobs in triple-digit temperatures that pay minimum wage, usually without benefits, according to the union. Some small farms are not required to pay minimum wage and in 15 states farms aren't required to offer workers' compensation. [I wonder what the salary is before the union takes its cut for doing such a fine job of looking out for the interests of those workers]

Despite the dismal job market in the U.S., where the unemployment rate is 9.5% and 14.6 million people are out of work, there have been few takers. [First I've heard about this - I suspect the lackluster response has less to do with willingness to work and more to do with unawareness of the opportunity and the fact that people can do better on either UI or working at McDonalds. If the program were marketed better and/or they paid what the market rate wage was (not the "illegal market rate wage") they'd have people beating the door down]

"I think everybody in our society is pretty clear that the least desirable job in the U.S. is being a migrant farm worker," said Rob Williams, director of the Migrant Farm Worker Justice Project. "If someone said to me, 'Here's a hazardous job and there's no worker's compensation,' I'd say, 'No thanks, It's kind of a no-brainer."

The Department of Agriculture counts nearly one million farm workers in the United States. According to the Migrant Farm Worker Justice Project, 85% of farm workers are immigrants -- and up to 70% of them are illegal.

Rodriguez, the union president, said the campaign is meant to draw attention to the need for immigration reform, such as the so-called AgJobs bill currently held up in Congress. The bill would grant temporary legal status to immigrants, which would become permanent if they continue to work on farms for a specific period of time. [In other words, "Amnesty now!"]

"If [members of Congress] can't do their job in passing the bill, then they should come work in the fields," he said. [From the air-conditioned comfort of his union office no doubt...]

Illegal workers are rich fodder for anti-immigration leaders such as Gov. Janice Brewer, R-Ariz., who told reporters in June that the "majority" of immigrants crossing the border from Mexico are smuggling drugs for cartels. The governor also signed into law requirements for state police to "determine the immigration status" of anyone under "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal alien.

The Justice Department on Tuesday sued the state of Arizona to overturn its new immigration law.

The proponents for migrant farm workers insist that they help, not hinder, the U.S. [If "helping the U.S." means taking money out of it, sending it back to foreign countries never to return, then demanding thousands of dollars a head for child education, healthcare, etc. then I'd hate to see what their idea of "hindering the U.S." is...]

Williams said that if people who oppose immigration "got their wish and all the unauthorized people went home tomorrow, we would have a crisis. We wouldn't have anyone to pick the crops, milk the cows, or take care of the Christmas trees." [Wrong. We'd have a labor market that would re-align its price for labor at the resulting supply/demand intersection for American workers and the sale price of the goods produced via that labor would rise a corresponding amount. The total net cost (factoring in all the money that gets funneled to illegals through government social and entitlement programs) would still undoubtedly end up showing a net benefit to doing this. What's the problem with paying more for groceries if it's more than offset by paying less in taxes?]

He added, "It may be the least desirable job, but it's the most important job for all of us, because we all eat."

[TechnoViking]

Certainly Americans won't do labor intensive, low paying jobs. I believe we will do labor intensive high paying jobs.

So what the industry is saying, in a way, is that at current food prices the jobs are low paying. What is the alternative? To pay union wages for picking strawberries?

Will the consumer pay $10 for a bunch of strawberries that now sells for $4? I doubt it. I think the result is we end up buying the bulk of our food from other countries. The American agri industry would become smaller as a result of the loss of their low paid workers.

I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing. But I believe many of those jobs currently held by illegals would simply be off-shored if wages are forced to rise. That is, they wouldn't be replaced by American workers rather they would simply disappear altogether.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That's assuming that the produce can even be grown elsewhere. A lot of it can't.

For one I'd have no problem paying $10 for strawberries if I knew they were made in the USA. Hell, I pay more for everything else that I can find that's still made in the USA and I go out of my way to look. Although I admit I'm probably the exception rather than the rule (most people just want the cheapest stuff, even if it's Asian-made junk from WalMart that will break in two weeks) I think there's certainly a market for this. "Organic" and "Fair Trade" are increasingly popular.

Besides, as I said above if the cost of produce going up to pay fair wages to American workers is more than offset by reductions in taxes to pay for illegal workers' entitlements (as it certainly could be), why is this a bad thing?

[Racerbvd]

Does anyone really think that the price of strawberries is really factored at the price based on illegals verses the legal cost of doing business?? Think about it, that would be a major flag to INS.

[LeeH]

The idea that US workers are willing to go stand in a field all day boxing produce at $8/hour is absurd. Clearly, Americans will go on welfare before doing this sort of work. Besides, who picks strawberries is not the real problem.

When Henry Ford starting building cars, few could afford them. He raised wages to the point that the people building the cars could buy one. The workers made a good wage and cars were sold. Ford made money.

For years companies have been doing the opposite of what Ford did. Jobs went overseas, prices on stuff went DOWN. People here made less money as workers moved from manufacturing to service jobs. BUT, since a DVD player now only costs $60, that was temporarily OK.

Now we've reached a critical point in the equation of underemployment vs cheap goods. At some point we have to swing back the other way. The loss of jobs along with the added stress of the rising cost of energy (made worse by the fact that all the jobs made more Indians and Chinese wealthy enough to afford cars) has pushed our economy to the breaking point.

When the jobs come back, so will the economy. Your stuff will cost more, but you'll be able to afford it as wages will rise. US companies cannot continue to send jobs overseas and expect to sell stuff here. It's really just that simple.

My question... WHEN WILL THE US COMPANIES FIGURE THIS OUT???

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by LeeH

The idea that US workers are willing to go stand in a field all day boxing produce at $8/hour is absurd. Clearly, Americans will go on welfare before doing this sort of work. Besides, who picks strawberries is not the real problem.

When Henry Ford starting building cars, few could afford them. He raised wages to the point that the people building the cars could buy one. The workers made a good wage and cars were sold. Ford made money.

For years companies have been doing the opposite of what Ford did. Jobs went overseas, prices on stuff went DOWN. People here made less money as workers moved from manufacturing to service jobs. BUT, since a DVD player now only costs $60, that was temporarily OK.

Now we've reached a critical point in the equation of underemployment vs cheap goods. At some point we have to swing back the other way. The loss of jobs along with the added stress of the rising cost of energy (made worse by the fact that all the jobs made more Indians and Chinese wealthy enough to afford cars) has pushed our economy to the breaking point.

When the jobs come back, so will the economy. Your stuff will cost more, but you'll be able to afford it as wages will rise. US companies cannot continue to send jobs overseas and expect to sell stuff here. It's really just that simple.

My question... WHEN WILL THE US COMPANIES FIGURE THIS OUT???

Well, when we quit paying them NOT to work & they start getting hungry & cold, they won't have a choice but to work..

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Well, when we quit paying them NOT to work & they start getting hungry & cold, they won't have a choice but to work..

True.
Keep in mind that it is not just the ag business, which could be resolved with a worker exchange program, but look at the construction trades.

These formerly good paying jobs are nearly gone due to the ability of developers to get cheap labor that was formerly done by young Americans (and some not so young ones ). This is the issue of who is profiting, certainly makes you wonder why the Building Trades Unions have not firmly stepped up for the American Construction Tradesman.

[fintstone]

Get rid of social welfare for the able bodied (WIC, Section 8, food stamps (now SNAP), earned income credit, college grants, etc)...and people will stand in line for minimum wage jobs picking fruit. I know that I have.

[Aurel]

I grow my own strawberries. Problem solved .

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Like millions of others, I was laid off last year but thankfully I was able to find another job (albeit on the opposite side of the country). If I hadn't been able to, I can confidently say I absolutely, positively WOULD have gone and picked strawberries or whatever else for $8 an hour if I couldn't find anything else (and it didn't look too promising back then). There are lots of people for whom UI is running out (it's a pittance anyway compared to a real working salary, but still...) There are many for whom earning an honest day's work actually means something versus simply sitting around doing nothing and collecting an unemployment check. There are many more for whom earning an honest day's work would actually mean an income because they CAN'T get an unemployment check anymore.

The whole thing about "illegals do the jobs Americans won't" is a crock - plain and simple. The real statement is that "illegals will do jobs more cheaply than Americans will". And that goes right to the heart of the problem. The real culprits here are the businesses that hire these people - and that goes for agribusiness, construction, meat-packing, you-name-it. Some of the worst culprits are actually residential homeowners (cheapest people on the planet) who have day laborers lining up around the block some days. They'd rather hire some illegal than do their yard work themselves or pay what an actual American landscaper charges, then has the chutzpah to b1tch and whine about how illegals are stealing our jobs. Duh.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

... The real culprits here are the businesses that hire these people - and that goes for agribusiness, construction, meat-packing, ... residential homeowners ...

Exactly. The real problem is doing something about it. I note the admin. recently did some big audits of large co.s hiring illegals. They are gonna be screaming at Congress to stop these "horrible audits" now...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html

It has some benefits over raids, but note the comment by Sessions.


I also agree with Byron's point re the cost of labor not being very large rel to the total retail price of food. Most goes to the middle-men.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by LeeH

The idea that US workers are willing to go stand in a field all day boxing produce at $8/hour is absurd. Clearly, Americans will go on welfare before doing this sort of work. Besides, who picks strawberries is not the real problem.

I disagree. People work at McDonalds for less. People join the US military for less starting pay than that.

[gduke2010]

If I were unemployed, I'd work the farms. Just can't understand why anyone would be afraid to do that kind of work. I did it and other tougher jobs when younger at much less pay, even cosidering the time value of money it was less. Grape pickers make $9.38/hr with overtime now. And it's $10/hr at In and Out Burger.

The unemployment rate for younger people wouldn't be so high if they went to the farms looking for work. That's what I did when younger.

You see lawyers and RE people waiting tables and doing other jobs to survive. Why not suck it up and apply for a farm worker job.

[Zeke]

There were some farm workers on the radio a day or so ago. One son of a life long field working mother said he could hardly keep up. Pay was based on volume, not hourly. He said it was OK except for the midday and afternoon sun or when they picked in the rain. he said strawberries were tougher than other crops. Some, he could even stand up while picking.

They made a 100 bucks a day for at LEAST 8 hours. No mention about withholding, etc.

I've picked cotton, but not for a living. Nasty work. I've worked in a produce packing shed and that's far better than in the field. 10 hour days. But, even at 100 degrees, you're in the shade.

I'm pretty sure city folks won't work in the field.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Well, when we quit paying them NOT to work & they start getting hungry & cold, they won't have a choice but to work..

Yesterday, while my wife and I were laying laminate flooring in an apartment building, I had a conversation with a tenant who gave me $500 cash and explained that he wouldn't have the other $350 until his "student aid" started to "come in." Seems that he had given up trying to find a job, and instead has applied for and is going to receive student aid to "go to school."

He is on unemployment (I'm guessing $400 to $450 every two weeks) and he says that he can't find a job. His girlfriend (the original tenant in the apartment) was laid off from her Dealer Auto Auction job and decided to attend a "for profit college" instead of accepting another, lower paying, job offer from a competing dealer auto auction (Manheim).

She also receives child support for a 3 year old daughter. (I know that she gets child support because the father of the child used to be a tenant and I know that he is a manager at Best Buy).

Oh, and she is pregnant with her second kid (by the guy who gave me the $500 along with the sob story).

She has no job, because she is "going to school" and she is 7 months pregnant.

So I continue to pound laminate (on my day off from my real job) and start to laugh at myself. I ask my wife, "So let me get this straight... I have a regular job, I've been up here laying laminate for the last two days on my "days off", and the people who live in my building, don't have jobs, and are late with the rent."

They are both in their late 20's, able bodied and of sound mind. Nice people if you met them on the street.

California is doomed.

[Tervuren]

Here's a question - are these illegals paying taxes on what they earn, are their employers paying employer taxes to? I might not mind working for $10 an hour if I where tax free.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by TechnoViking

Certainly Americans won't do labor intensive, low paying jobs. I believe we will do labor intensive high paying jobs.

.

They would if our nanny state would cut off their perpetual unemployment checks and welfare and food stamps.

[mikester]

I think this argument is twisted a bit - saying the Americans won't do labor intensive jobs is disingenuous. The problem is that Americans won't work in adverse conditions for crappy wages and under severly lax labor laws.

The laws governing this type of work are way different than 'regular' work. First, sure its minimum wage but there is no overtime and somehow the pay is tied to volume and not hours.

No worker's compensation? Whiskey tango foxtrot? What the heck is the farmworker's union doing anyway?

These are not fair jobs that anyone should be doing and the only reason they are getting done at all is because the farms are allowed to take advantage of the illegal immigrants.

Prices will go up if these basic laws that every other job has applied to them are applied here but sometimes what is right isn't always what is easy.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I disagree. People work at McDonalds for less. People join the US military for less starting pay than that.

McDonalds is a dumbed down assembly line, but the workers stand up in a climate controlled environment. Military has the potential for advancement, training, and valuable benefits.

The program in the article has been well publicized. Where are the applicants?

From the article "Since June 24, at least 4,000 people have responded to the application, said Rodriguez. Some are serious responses and others are hate mail. "Only a few dozen have really followed through with the process,"he said."

[RWebb]

the ironic thing is that upper middle class families will go to a U-pick farm for fun