German GP ****SPOILER****

URY914 · 07-25-2010, 06:09 AM

So there is a rule about no "team orders".

Let's see what happens now.

imcarthur · imcarthur's Garage

BBC F1 pundit Eddie Jordan: "It was unlawful and was theft. They stole from us the chance of having a wheel-to-wheel contest between the drivers. Ferrari should be ashamed. This was a team order. For me, it is cheating and these two cars should be excluded."

A whole lot of glum on the podium.

Ian

Geronimo '74 · 07-25-2010, 06:38 AM

Obviously Massa was ordered to let Alonso pass.
It is against regulations so there will be repercussions.
Why don't they use a predefined code word or sentence to let a pilot know to let the other one pass????
Nobody would know.
Even small kids are better in sneaky disobedience than these guys...

Joeaksa · 07-25-2010, 07:40 AM

Once again the baby Alonzo gets his way. Hope that the red cars are banned or given a 20 slot penality for a few races.

imcarthur · imcarthur's Garage

"In a statement issued on Sunday night, the FIA stated that a breach of Article 39.1, which bans team orders, and 151c, which relates to bringing the sport into disrepute, had been committed.

It said that the penalty would be: "Fine $100,000. The case will also be referred to the FIA World Motorsport Council for further consideration.""

from autosport

Ian

URY914 · 07-25-2010, 08:50 AM

They should take the points away. $100K is pocket change to a F1 team.

BRPORSCHE · 07-25-2010, 08:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking. I am sure Luca has taken more expensive dumps.

I see the red cars at 2nd by the end of the season.

Noah930 · Noah930's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914

They should take the points away. $100K is pocket change to a F1 team.

Man, I need to start panhandling 'round the F1 paddock.

bell · bell's Garage

I think there are ways to do team orders without beaing caught, they have certainly been ordered before but executed well enough where it wasn't questioned......
Phillipe lifting right after the hairpin and making alonso drive around on the right was phils middle finger for being told to concede the position......
He made sure that the world saw what happened, he could have easily late braked and let cry baby go inside.....but that would've been chalked up as a mistake by massa.....and I'm sure he wouldn't stand for that.....hence the middle finger....

legion · 07-25-2010, 10:05 AM

It was a pretty boring race overall. I think the first corner determined the finishing order for the top 5.

I don't think that team orders will ever be out of F1. There are some situations that just scream for them, but this really wasn't one of them. They should have let the boys race. Both Fred and Felipe know what is at stake, and could have easily raced each other without pulling a "Red Bull at Turkey". It's too bad that Hobbs didn't narrate the "pass" like he did the famous Massa/Raikonen "pass" in 2008.

I honestly think the punishment fit the crime in this case. It's a warning if it happens again, there will probably be new rules with stiffer penalties.

Ferrari seems to be struggling with the fact that with the exit of Max Mosley, they cannot flaunt the rules like they could in the past. They are now just another team and Todt plays by one rule book for everyone. I think the officiating has gotten much better this season.

I can't help but wonder if this paves the way for McLaren Driver's and Constructor's championships. Of the three teams at the top, Button/Hamilton are the only two that where there isn't some animosity because of team favoritism (at this point).

Joeaksa · 07-25-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

I honestly think the punishment fit the crime in this case. It's a warning if it happens again, there will probably be new rules with stiffer penalties.

Ferrari seems to be struggling with the fact that with the exit of Max Mosley, they cannot flaunt the rules like they could in the past. They are now just another team and Todt plays by one rule book for everyone. I think the officiating has gotten much better this season.

BS!

We seem to have forgotten that Jean Todt, who worked with the "red car company" most of his life has now taken "Spanky Mosley's" position with the FIA. As long as he is there the red cars will never have to play by the rules.

chapo · 07-25-2010, 11:56 AM

You guys are funny. Google Mclaren team orders and see what comes up. They all do it, like it or not. good thing Ron dennis never flaunted or broke any rules, lol.

chapo · 07-25-2010, 11:57 AM

BTW, i don't like any team orders, but they have been around forever.

sammyg2 · 07-25-2010, 02:40 PM

No shortage of folks here who consistently demonstrate how little they know about F1.

legion · 07-25-2010, 03:29 PM

Joe, I know this. But it seems that Whiting has taken a hard line with Ferrari, and Todt has (unexpectedly) not challenged this.

I'm guessing it may be a matter of he knows their tricks, so he doesn't buy the BS.

dewolf · 07-25-2010, 07:43 PM

Vettel tried his squeezing trick again. He is a dirty little turd.

Joeaksa · 07-25-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

Joe, I know this. But it seems that Whiting has taken a hard line with Ferrari, and Todt has (unexpectedly) not challenged this.

I'm guessing it may be a matter of he knows their tricks, so he doesn't buy the BS.

After all the years that they got away with anything, its nice to see something happening. Course part of this could be having a professional driver in the mix.

Still, $100k is a drop in the bucket. They should have been demoted 10 spots each and that would possibly stop it in the future, or make it happen with a bit more finesse. Even a blind man could tell what was going on today.

Oracle · 07-25-2010, 09:29 PM

I don't see any top team not doing the same.. It's been done many-many times, even David Coulthard said it today.
This is F1 and will be like that and team orders should prevail, the driver has the wheel on his hands so it's up to a the driver (by contract or other means) to let the other by.

Just happens to be that Massa doesn't have the balls to disobey any orders, do you think Fernando would've done the same?

Deschodt · 04:35 AM

Maybe I'm jaded but I don't get the big outrage....And let me point out right off the bat that I am not a Ferrari fan at all...

2 years ago, *same* track, Kovalainen gets a radio call from the MacLaren pitwall: " Lewis is faster than you"... And he lets him by. No problem. Now Ferrari does the same thing and they get the book thrown at them... Eh, Okay, but how about a little consistency ? Please ?

Personally I think this no-team order rule is BS. One, the rule is unenforceable, 2, F1 has always been a team sport. The team invests hundred of millions, they pay their driver's salaries, given them the cars. If they want driver A to win, it's their call. Lots of ways they can do this subtly, longer pit stops, problem with the wheel nut, whatever. It's unmanageable by the rule makers.

Now here's a contrarian view: This radio call was stupid...... in that it was *blatant*, both Massa's engineer (Rob smedley) and Massa himself really did not play ball in the interview - again I understand he'd be pissed - but it cannot have been a total surprise to him, since obviously this was "code" for "Let Alonso by". If I were the Team manager, I'd sack them both. They work for me, yet they put me in an awkward position. If they're not happy with the rule we set up in the team, they can work elsewhere. Is it cheating ? possibly, but all teams have done that in the last few years and it's never been enforced. At what point do you switch from "let them race" to: Driver A is now our best hope, drive M will support him ? *All* teams do that towards the end of the year. They don't always wait till it's mathematically impossible - is that cheating too ?

People are pissed because they think it's a pure contest between drivers, but let's be honest: Alonso was hired for $$$$ as a 2 time WC, to be #1. Period. He won the first race, he's 30 points ahead of Massa, they need to catch up with MacLaren and RedBull. Who are you gonna put your money on if you are S. Domenicali ? Me, Alonso (and I'm not a fan - but I'll pick him, he's more ruthless).

The cry babies at Red bull amuse me (and I'm a Weber fan), they're just pissed off they did not have the nuts to make similar calls and then Vettel crashed into Webber, and lost the team 30+ points to MacLaren. Oopsie ! that looked stupid too....

I mean this is not Tennis, it's motor sport, where you need a car to win. The team decides. Full stop. I wish the FIA would kill this no-team order rule, it creates stupid cheating. If a #2 driver does not like getting his millions to give his #1 a point by now and then, he's welcome to go work elsewhere, or beat his #1 consistently so that he becomes the de-facto #1. Seems fair to me. Same deal where Weber should have shut up about hsi front wing, he was behind in the championship. Barichello did go elsewhere, and he'll never win again. Again, oopsie...

If you wanna see fair fights, watch the Tour de France.. Oh wait, nope, doping.... How about soccer... Oh not, bad referees.... ;-)

Turbo_pro · 07-26-2010, 08:44 AM

Quick observation/question:
When was the last time we had an F1 race that didn't have Alonzo involved in a controversy?
What a POS.