Latinos--they're everywhere. A jobsite observation

[turbo6bar]

A few years ago, the only time you saw Mexicans was at new construction subdivisions. Nowadays, they're working for the big contractors. A strong storm with hail damaged nearly every roof in my parent's neighborhood. My unscientific survey suggest 75% of the roofs were repaired/replaced by latinos. This wasn't like the old days, when 11 guys packed themselves into a ratty old Chevy Astro van. These guys were driving nicer vehicles or even vehicles with company logos.

Across the street from my fixer-upper, a neighbor's house caught fire. The house is being gutted and rebuilt. Every now the then a van of a big local contractor (residential and commercial) stops by to check on progress. Who's doing the demo and new framing: a band of latinos? That's who.

It's getting harder to find gringos working construction.

On jlconline, the drywall guys are screaming bloody murder with the influx of illegals. One guy said he's making 15 cents less per SF than he did 10 years ago.

Also, latinos are doing the landscaping work everywhere. They do a lot of landscaping work at commercial locations and along right-of-ways for subdivisions.

Polls say voters favor strong immigration crackdowns. Judging by how undocumented migrants are doing jobs for homeowners and in public places, it seems like the talk is mostly talk.
jurgen

[Head416]

Keep in mind that Latinos repairing a roof aren't necessarily illegal. Minority populations are growing and spreading, so you're going to see demographic changes in the workforce.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are a lot of illegal immigrants in the workforce. But labeling all Latinos as illegals isn't fair.

There are a lot of hardworking Latino citizens in this country that have every right to work and be left alone. Quite frankly, when you jump to conclusions regarding somebody's citizenship based solely on their skin color you're providing ammo for those who seek to prevent immigration reform with accusations of racism.

Are most illegals in the southwestern US Hispanic? Probably.
Is the Hispanic guy standing in front of you illegal? You have to assume "no". Otherwise you're going to be going around labeling US citizens (who have the same right to be here as you and me) as illegal due to their skin color. That's not cool.

That's why AZ got it right. It's based on reasonable suspicion (like not being able to produce a driver's license when pulled over), not race or color.

[lin7310948]

yes much the same in my neck of the woods. replaced the roof on my house a couple of years ago. bids were submitted and roofing company chosen. old white guy showed up to haul off the scraps, and six latinoes did the work...quickly and efficiently. white supervisor slept in his car most of the time and smoked the rest of the time. latinoes were from nicarauga.. white company representative showed up for the check when the job was completed. probably could have done the job for half price if i could have contracted just the latinoes....too many respectable and influential locals making too much money of off latino labor!

[stomachmonkey]

I think there are a lot of factors at work. People willing to work for less, corps/business owners looking to maximize ROI etc and American youth have become lazy. They don't want a skilled job. Too much work for them.

I do believe that a primary reason the workforce for certain jobs has changed is that by and large Americans do not want those jobs.

I had a paper route in elementary school. In JHS and HS we cut lawns, shoveled snow, raked leaves or worked at McDonalds.

Those are jobs that every kid can do but you don't see it anymore, haven't for a long time now.

They have no foundation for sweating, freezing, getting blisters, working evenings and weekends.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I think there are a lot of factors at work. People willing to work for less, corps/business owners looking to maximize ROI etc and American youth have become lazy. They don't want a skilled job. Too much work for them.

I do believe that a primary reason the workforce for certain jobs has changed is that by and large Americans do not want those jobs.

I had a paper route in elementary school. In JHS and HS we cut lawns, shoveled snow, raked leaves or worked at McDonalds.

Those are jobs that every kid can do but you don't see it anymore, haven't for a long time now.

They have no foundation for sweating, freezing, getting blisters, working evenings and weekends.

Americans can sit on their widening butts for years collecting unemployment, why would they work? other than that whole pride and self-respect thing, which they've obviouly gotten past.

[turbo6bar]

Originally Posted by Head416

Don't get me wrong. I know there are a lot of illegal immigrants in the workforce. But labeling all Latinos as illegals isn't fair.

You're absolutely right. Latino /= illegal immigrant

There are a lot of hardworking Latino citizens in this country that have every right to work and be left alone. Quite frankly, when you jump to conclusions regarding somebody's citizenship based solely on their skin color you're providing ammo for those who seek to prevent immigration reform with accusations of racism.

On the other hand, how is an employer/homeowner supposed to screen? Let's suppose a contractor/business owner hires illegals and pays them under the table. Is there any responsibility on the homeowner/client?

In my parents neighborhood, the two homeowners I spoke to "assumed" these roofers were legal residents. The second neighbor mentioned that the roofer left his trailer with waste shingles onsite. He called the roofer's number. The daughter answered the phone and said her father had been detained and was being deported. The neighbor mentioned the guy spoke English really well. This is all anecdotal. I don't have the facts.

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I do believe that a primary reason the workforce for certain jobs has changed is that by and large Americans do not want those jobs.

I had a paper route in elementary school. In JHS and HS we cut lawns, shoveled snow, raked leaves or worked at McDonalds.

Those are jobs that every kid can do but you don't see it anymore, haven't for a long time now.

They have no foundation for sweating, freezing, getting blisters, working evenings and weekends.

Cannot argue with you there, but there are mitigating factors.

When I got deeper into the housing game, I had to find a bricklayer to relay brick after a fire rebuild. My brother found a bricklayer through one of his computer clients. The guy was retired, though. He said prices for bricklaying stalled and never followed inflation. He said he wasn't willing to punish his body day-in, day-out for declining wages. He did refer me to one of his students.

stomach, I, too, believe work ethic has declined. However, the construction industry has been decimated in this recession. We have tons of out-of-work construction guys. The growing pool of latino labor is pushing greater supply on the market. Prices, and I imagine, quality suffer. The winners are contractors and their clients.

Something has to give.

[turbo6bar]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Americans can sit on their widening butts for years collecting unemployment, why would they work? other than that whole pride and self-respect thing, which they've obviouly gotten past.

A lot of contractors are self-employed and cannot collect unemployment. They're fighting for fewer jobs at lower prices. Right now, it seems migrant labor is winning these rounds.

Been helping a cousin, his wife, and son build their new home. The son is 6 years old. Kid won't help. You can't give the kid any job, no matter how easy or simple, or you'll get whining and complaints. The parents enable the behavior by caving. I feel bad for them, and myself. My dad doesn't put up with that kind of crap. Neither does my mom. They're both immigrants. I'm first-generation American, and I think I'm already getting soft. If I cared about this country, I'd tell that kid to get off his butt and get to work. If I work for free building their house, what right has he to sit on his butt?
Jurgen

[Evans, Marv]

You know, like a lot of you, I had all kinds of jobs when I was a kid. I bet a lot of kids, parents and people now days won't hire a kid for a few reasons. You all know if the kid gets hurt at someone's house or business while working, there will be a law suite. The laws about not letting kids work before 14 are enforced, and it's amazing to me that all kids before the age of 18 aren't required to wear a helmet when working.

[Evans, Marv]

P.S., more to the subject of the thread. I've noticed fewer latino workers looking for work in my area. I imagine the poor economy is causing those who are not here legally to go back across the border.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

You know, like a lot of you, I had all kinds of jobs when I was a kid. I bet a lot of kids, parents and people now days won't hire a kid for a few reasons. You all know if the kid gets hurt at someone's house or business while working, there will be a law suite. The laws about not letting kids work before 14 are enforced, and it's amazing to me that all kids before the age of 18 aren't required to wear a helmet when working.

For myself, this was true big-time. I worked on horse and tobacco farms as a kid, doing everything, and per capita there's no more dangerous work than farm work. My folks let us do it because hell, they'd done it and they were fine. Your average city parent would have a heart attack if their kids did half the stuff we were doing. A buddy of mine fell of a barn we were re-roofing twice, though he wasn't seriously hurt.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

You know, like a lot of you, I had all kinds of jobs when I was a kid. I bet a lot of kids, parents and people now days won't hire a kid for a few reasons. You all know if the kid gets hurt at someone's house or business while working, there will be a law suite.

You have a point but in 20 years of homeownership in several locations I can't recall one neighborhood teen approaching me to cut grass, rake leaves or shovel snow.

Not one.

Which coincides with the big trend of the 80's. Get your Series 7, become a broker and make a million in a month.

Unfortunately I think the skilled trades are no longer looked upon as valuable by recent generations.

So is it chicken or egg, did we leave an opening for the demographic switch in the trades or did "they" really take the jobs away.

My gut tells me it's a combination of both.

[Evans, Marv]

It's partly the fact that all kids in school are taught like they are all going to the university. That and the fact for the past 30 years they've been fed the idea if they just barely show up, they're successful, pass, and did such a great job. I've heard some say, later on in life, they should have been offered vocational paths to follow, which actually is more lucrative in lots of cases. So we have all these people making half efforts at best, thinking that's how you do the best that's expected of you. While along come latinos and other ethnicities who know how to jump in there and work their asses off and get the job done, while our idiot young people are standing by wondering what's happening.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

The daughter answered the phone and said her father had been detained and was being deported.

Phone back next week (he should be back at work by 8:30).

You think the Mexicans have it bad. What about being a middle class white guy. The darkies hate us, women hate us, and we hate eachother.

[look 171]

50% of my sub contractors are Latinos and they are not American born. I like this because they are very likely to work three times as hard if need be. I know this for sure, they can do 90% as good as any American contractor for a very little bit cheaper, not much. They lack a little in the communication dept with client. hey they are pay to work or perform, not to talk. That's my job. A really good latino finish carpenter I have yet to come across. I am sure they are out there or here. for now I am stuck with that job.

I have had a good few bad experiences with American born Latino subs. I am an a$$ for saying this, but that has been my experience. These were young (early 30s) cocky guys who are just starting out. Maybe, they have a few clients and are now doing better then their parents or people in the old neighbourhood they grew up in. They want to charge a lot of money but do not want to be responsible or do much of the work. For example, an existing electrical box is not on straight, but refuse to just straighten it instead he just installs the outlet. When asked, he has the balls to ask for 50 bucks to pull a nail and re-nail back in place. These guys piss me off. Ok, I am done
B!tching. Sorry.

[Loomis]

Originally Posted by look 171

50% of my sub contractors are Latinos and they are not American born. I like this because they are very likely to work three times as hard if need be.

Is it worth the tradeoff? So many towns in SoCal and the Central Valley have all the charm, safety, and prosperity of Tijuana. We can't support first-class public services and institutions with third-world values, no matter how hard-working people are.

[Evans, Marv]

You know, Loomis, you are right, but this subject is so convoluted. Some of the reasons we can't support services and institutions have nothing to do with who we hire to do our work. Not trying to push this into PARF, but it would help if our State and local governments would allocate money and resources toward those services and institutions we are supposed to be paying for, rather than their personal projects, preferences and cronies. Yes, if we hire illegals, it takes away from the economy for local companies (by the way, I didn't hire any illegal contractors when building my house), but the money thrown away by our governments doesn't help them either.

[masraum]

Hmm, I haven't noticed more or less here, but then that's because of where "here" is.

Something that did surprise me last year. I make a yearly drive to my mothers going from Houston to the panhandle of FL which involves driving through LA, MS, and AL. At some point, I think in MS or AL, there was a crew of workers, IIRC mowing the grass in the median of I-10. It immediately struck me as odd when I noticed that the bulk of the folks on the crew were not Hispanic, but were another minority. I've just grown so accustomed to seeing Hispanics doing that sort of work.

One note, in my experience, a lot of the folks are Mexican, but far from all of them. When I bartended, lots of the kitchen and bar staff were from other areas of central and south America.

[masraum]

I've read articles that say that because of the economy, lots are actually moving back home.

[Rikao4]

work ethic..
some parents show and do...
bacteria parents do the same..

Rika

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by masraum

I've read articles that say that because of the economy, lots are actually moving back home.

I read an article where some of the towns and ranchos are having a problem handling the influx of citizens returning home. Their infrastructure can't take the increase in population and the "new" citizens are critical of services such as water and sewage, schools and healthcare after experiencing the "good life" here in the U.S.