New vari-speed pool pump motors
 

Anyone have any experience with these? My electric bill is $600/month, and it's a 2HP motor. Apparently they run all the time at a very low rpm to circulate the water; then come on high to power the pool vac.

I am looking for some real world savings/payback numbers.

TIA

Sounds like a good idea. Is the filter designed to work at lower pressures? One would think so.

These motors are now code for pools in my city. I had pool built right before they became code and it wasn't even mentioned as an option. My builder is the "finest" in the area, but missed this opportunity to give me an efficient pool. I would have liked to have the lower run-cost option. The filter efficiency is still good because they don't "jam" particulates through the filter media with excess flow. I have a friend that switched his to 2 speed motors. He figured it would pay for itself in a year or two.

This isn't enough info to do a calculation but an encouragement to keep up the research. There are 2 speed motors and variable speed. I presume you can dial in the lower speed with the variable type - but the controllers increase cost quite a bit. There is also the need to have a control module in the electronic control unit. Or perhaps the two timers can be wired to control it, but if your sophistication installs a variable speed pump, then a programmable timer seems appropriate.

We just had a pool completed in May this year. A variable speed pump was pretty much mandatory for the main filter/cleaner pump. Yes I do think that the var speed pumps can save you money, but part of this is having the ability to schedule when the system runs the skimmers (low RPM) and the cleaner (high RPM) at the cheapest energy rates of the day.

One additional thing I would mention is that we just added solar heating to the pool. This will end up costing us more per month for electric, since the pump now has to run at a high RPM durring the most expensive rates of the day :mad:

requisite pic pre water
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282085121.jpg

Dunno, but it is now CA law to run these "green" pool pumps. You have no other choice other than hitting the black market. Or so the pool guy tells me...

$600/month? Wow! Our house in Phoenix (ie A/C running full blast 6-8 months out of the year) is all electric with a pool and our bill is $225/month.

I have one. It is set at different speeds for different functions. I also have a much smaller high pressure pump that kicks on for the pool sweeper.

I run the main pump about 9 hours a day in the summer due to the chlorine generator and my 'lectricity bill has gone up about $60 a month, to $260.
In the winter it's much lower.

I've been using a dual speed for the last 12 or so years (1/4hp all day and 2 hours at 2hp). Its an old Jacuzzi pump. Not bad.

What the heck do you have a 2HP pump for? I have a 27000 gallon pool and it is overkill having a 1HP pump.

The "best" thing is to have separate pumps for the different functions. My pool cleaner, a Polaris 280, uses a 1/3rd HP dedicated pump. My main pump is now a 1HP unit, after change out from a 1/2 HP unit. My "Boost Pump" is 3/4 HP and obviously is never used. I have considered a VFD for my 1HP unit, so that I can run it as a low speed unit continously, and kick it up to high as a "Boost" unit while we're in the pool.

Do they make infrared light systems for pools? This seems like a more efficient way of sterilizing water.
I've heard of using hydrogen peroxide instead of the clorine products as well. Mind the swimmer will be drinking the water.


In the house furnace, we got rid of the electronic(i.e. ozone producing) filter and had an i.r. system installed, and went back to a paper element.

Are you sure it wasn't a UV system?

Ultraviolet, I think.

Yes. UV. thx for the correction(doh).

Re: 2hp pump motor - the pool is 45000 gallons and the pump was sized by the pool builder and prior homeowner. Perhaps I could get that checked.

Re: Electric bill - I guess it's actually 350 to 400 level pay year round. 3000 sq feet, 2 refers, pool, 3 kids, stay-at-home CPA wife who works out of the house. Updated to state of the art windows and high seer multi zone A/C is what got us down from 600 month.

Sorry, from the picture it didn't look that big. 45000 gallon a 1-2HP system would be indicated.

How much run time for your pump? I run mine about 12 hours a day, which really is more than needed for filtration. I use mine to circulate during the day for algea prevention. I expect you could get away with less. And using a mini-VFD on the pump, you could run it at 1/3rd speed for most of the time, and then at full bore when in the pool.

OTOH, I like the idea of multiple pumps, in case one fails. I was able to run my system on the "Booster" pump until I could get a warranty replacement.

The photo of the pool is by another poster.

I run mine 3 hours a day for about 7 months of the year, and six hours a day during the warmer months. The local pool shop recommends 8 hours per day due to the algae I am fighting, but I am just cheap enough to spend more time out there brushing the walls than run the pump more.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1282153294.jpg.

Not the best shot, but you get the idea. It is 11 feet deep at the deepest point, and that depth is maintained for quite a distance towards the shallow end. The guy who built it said he had rambunctious boys and he did not want there to be any way they could hit the bottom on a dive. Unfortunately, that works also to keep the pool cool.

2 hp ~ 1.5 kW * 6 hrs/day = 9 kWh/day = 270 kWh/mth. That doesn't seem to add up to the extra $300 per month.

Very nice looking pool and landscaping. I need to change out my coping because the stone they used continues to disintegrate, 3 years later.

Thanks for the math. I do not know if that increase is just the pool however.

Also, in California we have had huge increases in our electricity rates. Part of my monthly bill is always in "Tier 5" rates, which are at 31 cents per KW.

yikes - my Edison bill is between $20-30/mo. One advantage to apartment living. I don't have the nice backyard and pool though.

I really do believe 5 humans adds up. Especially when you have 2 teenage daughters.

$0.31/kWh!!! Yikes!!! And I've been complaining about $0.129!!! Well, that explains ~ $100 of your bill.

My concern is that algae mainly grows in sunlight so all the running at night doesn't do much good.

And where we live on So Cal there is no clock on the meter. If there was, I could so take advantage of it!

A friend of mine installs/repairs pools and he mentioned a problem with VS pumps. Turns out they're very sensitive to electrical surges. He's guaranteed at least 1 call after any large storm with lightning and it's always a dead controller pack. Since they're built in he has to replace the motor.

He installs surge protectors, one at the panel and one at the disconnect box on new installs and replacements to keep the callbacks down. You may not experience the same troubles being in Cali.

I put one on my pool and it cut my electric bill in half.

There are a number of issues related to pools that the pool guys do not have a clue.

To minimize your power consumption you must understand the sizing of all of the components. The filter is the key. Use a suction type automatic pool cleaner if you can as the extra motor on the polaris type cleaners is a huge (and I mean a HUGE) energy hog. Those polaris secondary pumps can cost you darn near as much to run as it would take to have a pool man manually clean and maintain your pool.

Another key concept is to understand the concept of pool turn over. You need to size your pool equipment and run the pump to turn the pool over twice a day. The problem is that many pool owners do not understand this and most pool maintenance folks will run the pump daily for eight hours. That seems to be the general rule of thumb for the pool folks. The issue is that the eight hour rule is wrong, it is the twice daily turn over that counts. For example, my little 8000 gallon pool with a variable speed, "soft start" pump and a very oversized filter (cheap) turns over once in about 45 minutes.

With all of that said you can do the calcs yourself based upon the pump curves of the variable speed pump and the size of equipment and volumetric flow rate to get the most out of a pool and save a bundle. My pump paid for itself in less than a year. without the SCE rebate it would have paid for itself in about 15 months.

Wow - good advice - thanks!

I know I have a very large filter, but the pool is large too. I think I will have to consult a pro to get the flow info.

David,

You will benefit from these new motor/pump combinations.

Danb

Just go to the pump and write down the info from the motor AND the pump. Then write down the info from the filter, making sure you give up the square feet. Finally, write down the guage reading for back pressure. It will then be about 5 minutes to find the pump diagram and read the flow.

Check for phosphate build up. If you have alot of birds in your area you will be surprised what it does to water quality.

How about running the pool pump on solar panels? I am doing this and really like it, as well as the fact that I can run it all day long in the middle of the day costing me nothing extra.

A 1500 watt Solar Panel system isn't exactly cheap, installed. Prices are coming down, but I think it would be more cost effective to put in a 2HP VFD controller

Thanks for the math. I do not know if that increase is just the pool however.

Also, in California we have had huge increases in our electricity rates. Part of my monthly bill is always in "Tier 5" rates, which are at 31 cents per KW.

So how many panels for the pump? Plus an inverter?

See here.

The Advantage Solar Power System

$8142 without installation for 1.962 kW peak. It will produce about 250-300 kWh per month, depending on your location.

If I install it myself, and take the 30% tax credit, it is still $5699 to produce $28/mth of electricty. In other places, where the tax credits are higher and the price of electricity is higher, it might pay for itself. Not worth it to me.

I am running 10 80w panels, and 10 6v golf cart batteries on mine. Everything sourced used and I have less than $1000 in the whole thing. The tax credit is pretty high here in Arizona.

Running during the day when the sun is out really helps and has done wonders to my electricity bill.

Joe

I had an interesting conversation with a pump installer yesterday. After discussing what it would take to make a new hi efficiency vari-speed pump motor interface with our (older) inside controller, he mentioned he was developing a prototype solar setup.

He will leave all the existing equipment installed and ready to go (if necessary, for the spa etc.) but plumb in a new separate pump/motor combo wired to an inverter and 2 to 3 solar panels. He definitely got my attention with that setup - esp because of the expense of making a new pump talk to my indoor controller, and my old pump is only 1 year old.

Dave,

Doubt that 2-3 panels would be big enough unless they are the big 200 watt versions.

3 panels would be 600 watts. He needs 1500 watts to run a 2 HP pump. It sounds like someone is trying to "up-sell" you an $8K system.

Post the make and model of each piece of equipment.

A 2HP VFD - $232 (240 1 ph input, 3 ph output)
A 2HP motor, 3 ph, 230/460V, $988

The VFD has 3 speed settings built in, which can be controlled with simple contact closures. True variable speed can be set using a variable resistor or 4-20 mA signal. I expect you would use the contact closures.