No rental agreement for tenant

[911pcars]

What's the conventional wisdom given the fact different states have different housing laws? This isn't discussed too much in my internet search.

When my mother oversaw her rental property, she issued a rental agreement to her tenants. I'd like to make sure both parties know the boundaries within the law. At this point, how do I get them to voluntarily sign one? Nothing onerous, just a standard agreement re: pets, subleasing, number of occupants, late fees, etc.

I hope I can get a educated guess from you guys before I have to call in formal legal analysis.

Thanks,
Sherwood

[id10t]

"sorry, my insurance requires that you sign the rental agreement or move out"

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by id10t

"sorry, my insurance requires that you sign the rental agreement or move out"

I can use many excuses, e.g. "You must sign or I will evict you". It must be enforceable by law. You sure?

Thanks

[Zeke]

Are you saying the tenants are the same ones your mother had an agreement with? Was the agreement verbal? Seems like something's missing. I mean, there are all these things at the stationary store, but you know that.

You can raise the rent with 30 days notice on month-to-month and you can change the terms as well as long as nothing you do or say discriminates. Like you can't all of a sudden ban children.

[Brando]

FHA in CA prevents a lot of "Do this or I evict you" actions by housing providers. For instance: You cannot evict a tenant if they choose not to have renters' insurance (one my old apartment complex tried to use).

Usually rental agreements are "common sense" rules that most anyone would not disagree with. Some examples would be:

- No disorderly or violent behavior on the property.
- No public drunkenness.
- No drug use on the property.
- Respectful use of communal areas.

Etc.

What has necessitated the need for a rental agreement? Keep in mind the legalities... A person has more rights living in one of your properties than you do as the owner of said property... In CA.

[schamp]

With my tenants they either sign a years lease or I don't rent to them. Next. You don't have to rent without a lease in Ga. Not sure about other states.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by milt

Are you saying the tenants are the same ones your mother had an agreement with? Was the agreement verbal? Seems like something's missing. I mean, there are all these things at the stationary store, but you know that.

You can raise the rent with 30 days notice on month-to-month and you can change the terms as well as long as nothing you do or say discriminates. Like you can't all of a sudden ban children.

Hi Milt,
You're familiar with the property. Same tenants. However, they seem to have sublet a room to another person. And when the primary tenants move on (overnight perhaps), this person could now be the default renter, again w/o a rental agreement.

In rent-controlled LA, I can raise the rent about 3-4%/year with adequate notice. Not sure I can suddenly change the terms. For example, if they've had a pet for years, can I now require them to sign an agreement requiring no pets? Not sure I can.


"What has necessitated the need for a rental agreement?"

As stated previously, we want the tenants to recognize and agree to their limits as renters in regards to painting or modifying the inside w/o permission, subletting, late payment penalties, number of persons permitted, etc.).

Maybe I'm being overly cautious. Can I just send them an edict with my rules after the fact? And will this "agreement" apply even though they don't sign? And in case they don't comply, do I have legal teeth to back up my agreement terms retroactively?

S

[island_dude]

This can get tricky. In the absence of an agreement you will have to be careful how you handle this issue. You will have to do some research on the situation in your state. Generally speaking, no agreement means that you are renting month to month (this is the case where I own property). You can draft a rental agreement with whatever terms (they have to be legal) you wish and present it to the tenants. Offer them a notice period (no less then 30 days, but probably 60) after which they have to accept the agreement or give notice that they are moving.

If they wish to be difficult, things can get sticky. The actions you have to take will depend on the state. It might be a good idea to come up with an agreement that isn't very different than what is the case now. That way you can have a framework to enforce getting rid of them later if you want different terms.

Good luck

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by island_dude

This can get tricky. In the absence of an agreement you will have to be careful how you handle this issue. You will have to do some research on the situation in your state. Generally speaking, no agreement means that you are renting month to month (this is the case where I own property). You can draft a rental agreement with whatever terms (they have to be legal) you wish and present it to the tenants. Offer them a notice period (no less then 30 days, but probably 60) after which they have to accept the agreement or give notice that they are moving.

If they wish to be difficult, things can get sticky. The actions you have to take will depend on the state. It might be a good idea to come up with an agreement that isn't very different than what is the case now. That way you can have a framework to enforce getting rid of them later if you want different terms.

Good luck

I would agree that this will apply to CA and Los Angeles rental properties pretty much as stated. The key is that they are on a month-to-month basis now and other than the rent control issue, you can make reasonable changes with proper notice.

The example of pets is a good one. If the tenant had a history of being permitted to having pets, it would be hard to change that. Especially on short notice. However, if the pet became a nuisance in any way, you would have more ground.

Sub-letting is usually not permitted in agreements for insurance purposes if no other. But, if there is no formal agreement in place, I don't see how you can work you way out of that very easily. If any codes are violated, I think the courts would back you, but obviously, you don't want to go to court.

You might try a bluff using the insurance angle. Otherwise, I would politely inform the tenant that a written agreement is forthcoming on advice of your insurance agent and your attorney. I would present the reasonable agreement with a tie frame to sign or wait for another course of action.

The rent raise won't work in your case, and that's what most landlords would do. Careful. Whatever you ask of the current tenants, you must demand of future tenants. And, things should be in order with respect to the property. No hazards known or unknown to give the tenant any advantage.

But, you really need the ID of everyone living there. I think their are codes that require this.

Tough business.

[stomachmonkey]

Old HR trick.

When you need someone to sign something and they refuse ask them to jot down what their objections are.

This serves the purpose of having them acknowledge the document which is all that a signature is intended to do.

You'd be surprised how often they fall for it.

[RWebb]

see if there isn't a booklet on the rental laws where you live - take account of city and county laws, not just state laws

here they have a renter's pamphlet, later they added on landlord info also

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Old HR trick.

When you need someone to sign something and they refuse ask them to jot down what their objections are.

This serves the purpose of having them acknowledge the document which is all that a signature is intended to do.

You'd be surprised how often they fall for it.

I've heard of that. But, if I don't like what you have and I state that, how are you gonna use that against me? That may be fine for stating basic company policy, but not much else.

Randy, believe me, there are reams of paper on rental conditions available for both tenant and landlord. But, if no one specifically agrees to a tailored agreement, only the covenants required by law are in effect.

Those include entry w/o notice unless there is an emergency, eviction procedures, minimum property condition standards and much more.