How Dangerous IS this?

[RWebb]

ok, the heater in the wall is a Cadet (hopefully, not the type of Cadet that throws out sparks and burns down your house) and it IS a 240 V unit. The outlet next to it is on 110V. Still unclear as to what the wire goes to.

I have 2 options on this:

[1] I can try to put the wire ends with the nut in a junction box (somehow - not sure if the wires are long enough) and then tear out the wall (that I just paid a guy to re plaster) to run the wires inside the wall from the wire nut area over to the heater or the outlet inside the wall.

[2] same with the J-box but I drill down into the room below, run the wires over down there and then up into the heater or outlet from below. I conveniently pulled out some of the ceiling down below last year - got bored or cabin crazy during the winter...
I have booze stored down there and have moved some of it out of the way, but still maybe a bigger job to get access if I do that (the wires will come out above some wall headers or whatever you call them (Plates?).

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by BGCarrera32

The real problem is that if it goes up in flames you probably won't have time to grab the camcorder and get a video, and then the power is out and the computer is down so you can't get it on YouTube for us to see.

(I would leave them alone and just make sure you find the junction and disconnect/make sure they're dead. No reason to start hacking up the wall.)

unnnhhh... then I won't have heat in my office for the winter

[RWebb]

ok, this is definitely the cable to the 240V heater - white/black/gnd - so single phase (???)

the feed to the 110V outlet comes in from the top (not the bottom) is silver, not white like this Romex

now, I do NOT want to trust the moron PO's choice of cable size so what type of cable do I need to buy for a 220V run to a Cadet heat that is rated for 2.25 kW output?

the cable to the heater is LOT more flexible and smaller than the feed cable running to the wire nut jct. they made

[javadog]

If you have a 240V heater, you're going to need more than a white, a black and a ground wire. Specifically, you'll need one more wire.

So, I am not sure the investigation is done yet...

JR

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by javadog

If you have a 240V heater, you're going to need more than a white, a black and a ground wire. Specifically, you'll need one more wire.

This is very common for 220 volt outlets like ACs, compressors etc. If you don't need the neutral you don't have to provide it.

I would just fix it. Those wires aren't meant to be buried in drywall mud.

[M.D. Holloway]

Jam the wires back in, a lil spackle will fix that right up...

[dipso]

Originally Posted by javadog

If you have a 240V heater, you're going to need more than a white, a black and a ground wire. Specifically, you'll need one more wire.

So, I am not sure the investigation is done yet...

JR

Agreed. If it's 220 or 240 you will have 2 110 wires running to it, a neutral and a ground.

If it's 110 you will only have 1.


My guess is that the previous owner just jumped some romex into an existing outlet, most likely the one 9' away then ran it down behind the base to make a new outlet. Or even from an outlet on the other side of the wall.

I still say cut open the wall a bit on one side and move the wires up. Put em in a junction box and close it back up.
Tell you the truth, I have a couple of connections like that at my house but i always wrap them with something and they are never on the ground like that.
A junction box would be the best .
I doubt they are ever going to spark and catch fire but you want to contain the spark if it ever did.

I'd say your main concern is getting them off the floor. If you had a minor flood, a spill or even an aggressive carpet cleaner you would get those things wet. They wouldn't catch fire but they would flip the breaker and then you wouldn't be able to turn it back on until the water was gone.
Plus live wires on the floor would shock the hell out of you, or even kill you if you stepped in the water and the breaker failed.

Foot in water, live electricity in water. Not a good combo.
Move em up. Just a few inches is all it takes.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by rick-l

This is very common for 220 volt outlets like ACs, compressors etc. If you don't need the neutral you don't have to provide it.

True, so long as there's nothing else in the unit that requires 120V, like a fan motor, controls, etc. I have no idea what heater he has, so if I were Randy, I'd replace the circuit with a four-wire one, since I'm going to have to do something. I'd rather have an extra wire than be short one, especially if down the road I might change the heater.

Plus, I can envision an idiot doing things with three wires that are better done with four, so I'd do a little digging to find out just what the previous idiot actually did. Given his brilliant DIY installation, I assume the worst. I'd be looking at the wiring connections inside the heater and inside the panel.

JR

[RWebb]

ok, what kind of junction box do I need to use?

can it be same ones as I use for 110V runs - or something special?

[nosmo_king]

Oh yeah, you should definitely get someone to look at that...

[carambola]

what has happened is the electrician was rushed to move the wires with limited access beneath so they channeled behind the baseboard to the new location.

you could technically use #14awg but i will bet money the circuit is on a 20A circuit breaker so you have to use 12awg.

the tic tracer (beeper) may not have worked because the 2 legs canceled each other out, try to separate the wires and test again.

the way to fix this is to get a single gang plastic old work box, cut it into the wall and a single gang blank cover, turn off the circuit breaker, pull the wires up into the box and re-run the wire at size 12. make sure to put nail plates over top of the wire if you use the same path, make up a new junction at both ends.

if the existing breaker is 30A, change the breaker to manufactures specs.

you only need to use two wire (three conductor) black/white/ground because the heater doesn't need a neutral

hope this helps

[RWebb]

thx - have drilled one hole into the basement room & will do the other, easier hole when I can get time

BTW - the heater has red, black & gnd wires & the original thicker feed cable also has only 3 wires - white, black, gnd.

I'll use 12 AWG for my new 15 ft. run