Nice Job Enviromentalists

[chapo]

Biologists scour Mojave in desert tortoise roundup - latimes.com

For decades the enviros have been closing thousands of acres to human activity to protect the desert tortoise, saying how fragile their ecosystem is and how they can't be disturbed or moved. Throw the word solar into the equation, however, and it magically becomes ok. Typical land grab for money, not the people.

[pwd72s]

crickets chirping...

[BeyGon]

It's too bad Pelozi, Boxer, Feinstein didn't round up the smelt in the central valley and move them, they aren't even native.

[widebody911]

I'm willing to bet that the people protesting the solar farm and those moving the turtles are not the same group.

[chapo]

"crickets chirping". exactly. Let the government tell you you can't use the desert, but then they can bulldoze it for a $olar plant.

[RWebb]

you seem confused about who is who, chapo

the project is "opposed by many conservation groups and scientists due to its proposed location in endangered species habitat"

Poorly Sited Solar Project Edges Closer to Approval

[chapo]

Not really, my point is that the government basically shut large areas of the desert off to the public because of these turtles but ignored their own arguments when the government needed the land.

[RWebb]

no, the government ignored their own arguments when a big corporation needed the land

[KaptKaos]

Originally Posted by RWebb

no, the government ignored their own arguments when a big corporation needed the land

No, they ignored their own arguments when the donors to politicians asked for their quid pro quo.

[Joe Bob]

Tree paradise, put up a parking lot....

[red-beard]

So where the hell are you supposed to build Solar Plants?

[sammyg2]

This is yet another example of the hypocrisy and stupidity of environmentalists.
In the late 70's the tree huggers managed to shut down the annual barstow to vegas motorcycle race through the desert.

Then after court battles, it was reinstated in 1983 with the agreement that the race could only go from Daggett to State line (about 60% of the original race) and all routes must be clearly marked and all trails must use existing fire roads, sand washes, etc. No virgin land would be used.

We worked hard to lay out the course correctly, doing surveying, marking, etc.
Three days before the race we marked the course clearly and even laid out thousands of yellow and black ribbons indicating that the rider was off course and must turn back immediately.

We very very proud of the hard work and result that went into setting up that race. Unfortunately, several "environmental" groups led by the sierra club showed up the evening before the race and not only stole hundreds of the markers, they intentionally moved them around, set them out in a way that would intentionally make riders go off course and into protected lands.

They were more than willing to sacrifice the exact thing they were fighting to protect in order to make us look bad and win their silly-arsed fight.

[SoCal911T]

[daepp]

I have been to the area around the proposed site many many times.

It aint paradise folks. And there is such a vast amount of land there. While these idiots may convince ruling class judges, they cant change reality.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by red-beard

So where the hell are you supposed to build Solar Plants?

if you put them on the roofs of bldgs, you:

1. avoid siting problems
2. avoid transmission losses
3. provide shade in the hot summer sun


I don't know how badly the turtles are going to be impacted by moving them, but it should be obvious that having chapo crushing them with an ORV is bad for them - DUH

[red-beard]

Putting Solar Panels in England or Seattle is basically worthless. In extremely high clearness Ratio areas (El Paso, Phoenix, San Diego, etc) putting them on buildings is fine. But like wind, it best to put things where the resource is.

A few years ago, I calculated how many panels we'd need to power ourselves with Solar Panels, if we wrapped them around the earth at the Equator. It was about 200-250 miles wide. But you're right, it doesn't take into account the transmission losses.

One thought has been that instead of using the solar power directly, you use it to create a transportable fuel. Hydrogen is always the one discussed, but I don't want to open THAT can of worms here.

Seriously, it is RAINING energy, but we don't really have the right bucket to capture it.

Panels need to drop in price to about 1/4 of what they are to make them commercially viable in this part of Texas.

Here are the maps:

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I don't know how badly the turtles are going to be impacted by moving them, but it should be obvious that having chapo crushing them with an ORV is bad for them - DUH

Which makes it even worse that the enviro-wackos moved all the course markers in an attempt to direct the riders to where the tortoises were.
Just to make the motorcyclists who pay to ride out there look bad.

The CDCA (California desert conservation area) consisted at the time of 25 million acres. The race as laid out was to use 2000 acres along a 110 mile path. That's a pretty darned small footprint tor 110 miles. That is until sierra club got involved and redesigned the course, their actions probably increased it to 100,000 acres or more and endangered the lives of riders. If they got hurt or broke down out in an area they were not supposed to be there would not be any support services. That could have resulted in a large scale search and rescue which would have impacted the dirt and tumbleweeds even more than the original race. Not to mention people could have died.

[sammyg2]

Oh BTW, starting around 1987 a radical spin off enviro-wacko group called "earth first" started stringing ropes and wire across the track the night before the race, which by then was entirely run on dirt roads used to access utility lines and railroads. They put these ropes and wires at the neck level of a rider.
They also put out pungie sticks, railroad ties with spikes in them, it got so bad that military police were paroling the course for 24 hours prior to the race.
And earth first claimed responsibility in every case that I was aware of.

Gee, I wonder why in the world they would do that?

[sammyg2]

[RWebb]

James - I agree, tho this plant is meant to supply LA & the SW -- getting that part of the US "all solared up" would help a lot.

Mass production and further R&D will bring down the cost of PV solar. It has already fallen quite a bit.