$10K is race car money. Per my original post. Just sayin.

And next year the new 991 hits the streets.

A guy I know in Stuttgart claims it will be so good that all preceding Porsches will suddenly look very old.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288403196.jpg

That guy has been saying that with every new model ready to make its debut...that's the thing with old (or older) Porsches, they are wonderful machines that make the marque so highly sought after. Heck this thread is talking about the desirability of the least desirable 911

Yeah, right. Porsche changes are evolutionary, not revolutionary - it'll be a bit better than the last one, same as the one before.

If that picture is a preview, I have to say, there is nothing new there. You show that to a non car person, they won't know the difference between it and the 997 and some may not even notice the difference to a 993. :D Seriously, I had non car people ask me if my 993 was a new model Porsche ...

George

I have no beef with the 997 or 991. They'll trounce my cars any day in performance, but never in looks or sound.

http://fototime.com/717F1CDB66F35BD/standard.jpg

Your 993 is gorgeous. You'll get no disagreement from me on that.

They have some good ones occasionally... They always seem high to me though....

There is still a part of me that wants a 993. I see lots of new Porsches around but if I see a 993 in a lot, I will make the trek over to it and check it out. Maybe wait around for the owner and compliment him on such a nice car. Bashing new Porsches is easy and the argument can go on and on of technology vs driving experience. To me, some cars have and some don't.

Rick's 993 looks great because it's the right color(s)/wheels/etc... I'm extremely finicky about cars in general and Porsches in particular when it comes to aesthetics; ie. if anything is wrong to my eye, I don't like the car. 98% of 911s of any age do nothing for me and most stock 993s bore the **** out of me on sight. I've never liked those cars w/ stock ride-height and wheels at all and I've never understood the great love for that model. This one floats my boat, however:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288459852.jpg

My 996, (beat-up as it was), had the *right stuff* aesthetically. Both visually and aurally, exhaust note has to accompany visuals:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288460189.jpg

You want to see quality?
 

Here is a photo of my 205k mile, never re-covered drivers seat on 996. The previous owner was a big steroid-monster meathead. I've never seen a 911SC or Carrera w/ 125k miles w/o split seams and/or destroyed bolsters on a stock leather seat. And I've seen a million of them. This is Porsche quality improving. :cool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288460687.jpg

Maybe the 996 is such a dud because it's the first of the water cooled? Yep, the 993 was the last of the 911 line...

Lastly, these stories of $15k repair bills on a $15k car are bananas. Just buy another one, for chrissakes...

And a $25k rebuild on a 3.2??? :confused:

You can buy one of the best 3.2 cars on the planet for less than that w/ cash in hand. The whole frucking car, down to the cigarette lighter and the owners manual. In showroom condition. Some of these stories (and arguments) belong in the nut house. :rolleyes:

Denis's 996 was the epitome of 'the deal'.


And for those considering a 1999 996 - the 2000 Boxster S can be had for a few $K less, arguably handles better, and can be made just as quick. It was a no brainer for me - pristine 986S or beat up 996... such similar cars.

+1

Some 911's (993/996/997/etc.) just have it (presence), and some don't. And a big +1 on that as well.

I keep saying I'll pick up a 996 or 997 one of these days, but I find it harder and harder to part with my money as I get older. I don't like the fried egg headlights on the 996, but $20K for one makes the headlights much easier to live with :D

That may be so. As I said, it depends where you live. In this town there are four—possibly five—shops to which you'd take your 3.2 for a professional rebuild. Top end alone will run you between $10 and $12K. (They may quote you $8K or $9K—but it always ends up costing a few K more.) Complete rebuild, top and bottom and refreshing all tired parts will cost twice that. Easily. Mechanics rates here run around $130K per hour—or more—and that's regardless of whether its the senior guy or the parts washer. It's a "shop rate".

In Germany you will pay even more for a good rebuild. (I've had engines rebuilt on both sides of the Atlantic.)

Of course there are currently cheap 3.2's available. But if you really like your car and have a lot of money into it already and need a rebuild—and have neither the time or the inclination or the skills to DIY—what are you gonna do?

"$130K per hour"
That's a lot of money.

I'm sure they've raised their prices since I was there in 2004. But Ruf charged something like 72 Euros per hour for labor. They were boring out a 3.2 to 4.0 when I toured the workshop and I'm sure it was a fraction of $25k. I've been quoted 40 hours for top end rebuilds and not a lot more for a full top and bottom. When I did my SC, I think the whole bill was under $5k and that was adding SSI's and 964 cams. Though I had a friend do most of it for me in my garage while I was in China. I paid him around $1800 for his trouble.

BTW, here's my 993's interior.

http://fototime.com/2589A710A7EE9F8/standard.jpg

There is just no sound like an air-cooled flat six with Fabspeed MaxFlows. Of course, I removed the soundpad and drilled the airbox.

My next Porsche will be a Cayman S, but it will be a few years (priorities, you know)...

That passes the Hemingway six word short story litmus with aplomb: "Considered TR3. Really pure. Never used."

While I am going backwards in the Porsche parade, there is no best, no absolute. Love the one you're with...at least I have.

Your car, btw, would fit.

A 996 is an incredible car. Supremely capable in all aspects. Even after the 2002 facelift I could BARELY get past the front bumper/headlights though.
It's gonna have to be a well loved higher mile 997 for me.

That 993 is awesome...I hate to sound like a dip***** but is that still air cooled or water? My true love is ANY air cooled Porsche. I like the water cooled cars just fine. I just have to have an air cooled car..:confused:

If that car is water cooled I will still be looking for one....might change my ways....
I need one of those in my garage
My buddy has a brand new twin turbo..he is trying to convert me to water cooled 911's...but he loves my air cooled car..first one he's ridden in

993's are the last air cooled porsches

Wow that is awesome so whats in those a 3.6?

yep.

Let me google that for you

I went down this road fairly recently. I was looking to replace my 84' 911 and was considering at first a 996. I drove a few and they are fast. The do all things that a sports car should do quite well. What turned me away was the feel. It didn't feel the way I thought it should. I know this is completely subjective and thankfully we have many models to choose from. I feel the 996 is a lot of bang for your buck, it's just not for me. I am picking up my new (to me) 1995 993 next Sunday. This car still delivers what I am looking for in a Porsche. Rick and Dottore, your cars are absolutely stunning.

Chris

A little more 993 porn:

http://fototime.com/9B789DE99BDC2F3/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/9DC8766C78B9F82/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/D972E3101876922/standard.jpg

I really do like the 997's and can see myself in one, except that I will never ever sell my 993 and don't know that I could fool my wife with a 997. I could stash one in a storage garage nearby and swap them out on the weekends. But she'd get wise.

Superb pictures Rick! Porn is always good.

Here's some 997 porn.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288489790.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288489807.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288489823.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288489839.jpg

Love that color. Must have one day. Drive it to Phoenix and we can swap for a short trip.

Nice pics. I'd almost guess that the car was lifted to get the wheels to line up the way they did in the 2nd and 3rd pictures.

Stop it! I'm really thinking a 996 will be my next DD.... It won't be long and I could trade up for not too terribly much difference....

Almost bought a 996 about 5 months ago. the IMS thing scares me. i'm not sure how over-hyped it is, but i have read a ton of accounts of issues. if i could pay cash for one, i'd pull the trigger on it, but it's going to be a few more months till i could swing a cash deal.

in the mean time, the E30 keeps on truckin'

I think if I got one that hadn't had the IMS fixed I would want to buy it cheap enough and just plan on fixing that rather quickly...

rnin,
go cruise the Rennlist 996 board. There are many with over 100K miles. Macster has a boxster with over 200K.

I was absolutely dead-wrong about what PatrickB paid for his 3.2 rebuild. He paid about $13.5K for a complete teardown and rebuild by one of the best engine builders anywhere, which included a lot of new, expensive parts. I have no idea where I got the 25K figure, but it was totally incorrect. Sorry.

As for my ride (by the way, for those who don't know, I have both types in my garage - an '84 911, and a 2000 996)...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288496235.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288496279.jpg

Here's my 112,000 mile interior
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184812556.jpg

A gratuitous shot of my '84 in its favorite environment...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288496530.jpg

Scott- those wheels are from a 2002 Carrera, are they not? The same as on Rick's 993. Great looking wheels, they make the cars look very modern- plus, those aren't the stock lights and tails, are they? I need to do that upgrade (it is so expensive though). I have the id engined 2000 equivalent-

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288498535.jpg

Rick your 993 with those wheels really make it looks like a much more recent model.

Those wheels look good on anything... RKD has a pair on his 928... They are beautiful in their simplicity....

Yea, I love those wheels. I think that design may be my favorite Porsche wheel ever - even above the beloved Fuchs on my '84.

The lights - as far as I know - are stock 2000 model year lights front and rear. If I recall correctly, in 2000 Porsche changed the front turn signals from amber to clear on the 996, but left the Boxster with the amber lights - for some differentiation.

By the way, Mike, your Boxster is sweet! My wife drives a Cayman and I absolutely LOVE the handling of that car - which is really just a hard topped version of your car!

Scott-

Don't you fear having an IMS failure with your car. Have you done anything to mitigate the risk?

I have a friend that had one fail on a 997 with 23k miles... It hard for me to overlook that when i think about buying one....