Hmmm... as 996 prices drop they keep looking better and better. This is ok for $17K
 

My opinion of 996s seems to have an inverse relationship to their prices, which seem to be dropping rapidly. How long before these start hitting the low teens or less???

This is a 1999 with 105K miles, aero package for $17,500.
1999 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe Aero Kit....http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288321832.jpg

They are getting downright tempting... The boxsters as well... I could sell my '07 Corolla right now and get in an early non-s boxster for little or no difference.....



Must resist stupid urges....

We have a member here who picked up one for I'm thinking for $10K..

And it was a pretty solid one too..

Yea.....something like that just might have to happen

Take advantage of the low prices! They are awesome cars! I've had a 2000 996 for the past five years and it has been the most reliable daily driver I've ever had. It's also been tracked about six times and autocrossed a few times too. It has 112,000 miles and counting. I'd upload a pic, but I'm in Honduras right now and the 'net is slooooowww.

My prediction is 928 price territory. There is no bottom on these. in 5 years they will be at $10k. Still not sure if I'd get anything but the GT3 or the Turbo. Those, interestingly enough, hold their value much better. ;)

Over 75k miles I see them all the time for under $20k here in L.A.

George

It's not the up-front costs you need to be worried about...

might be a stupid question but I really want to hear how many people here has early 996 with 150,000+ miles, without engine rebuilt/replaced and still running well?
Thanks.

I think Cayman's are going to be even better value. Early ones are in the 20's right now. If I were smart (I'm not) I'd sell the 86 and the 73 and get a 2005/6 Cayman.

I'm in for a Cayman in a couple years too. Hopefully by then the IMS refit kits will have proven themselves.

17k for a 996 could be a deal, but for 100k it's not a screaming deal.

I have a friend that picked up a 1999 6spd w/40k for 17k 2 years ago. The car has been super reliable for him.

I think we're going to see a bunch of the newer water-cooled cars showing up as race cars if prices keep dropping. My SC will be as slow as the 914s were when I started racing (relatively speaking).

When the Boxster came out I told my wife I'd buy one once the got in the low teens. Well, I just really have no interest in owning a convertible. Now I'm saying once the Caymens get down there I'll buy one. BUT, I'm wondering if they'll ever get there. Have the sales been high enough that there will be a bunch hitting the used market in a few years? Will my fellow Pelicans be fighting over them keeping the prices up? And then there's the 997. By the time the Caymens get cheap it seems like the 997s will be getting down there in price.

I believe Denis had over 200k hard miles on his original motor and transmission with no major repairs. They are more reliable than yours.:)

My 996 was a spectacular car, personally I think anyone that would prefer a Carrera over one is a fool. Great A/C, decent ride makes for a good DD, performance that will destroy any previous N/A 911. My guess is that most 996 detractors simply haven't driven one.

Good Boxsters can be had for the mid-20s now.

The "high risk" early ones ('99, '00) can be had for the mid-teens.

I've said for years that the Boxster is going to be the new 944 - expect them to turn up on tracks across America in a few years with lots of mods. They're good cars but the depreciation curves are absolutely wicked.

The 996 and Boxsters are the same car from the cowl forward and share a lot more. They are both reliable save for the occasional RMS and bearing problems (which 98% of the cars don't suffer)(yet).

Really, the maintenance is no more than a typical car and way less than an old 911.

True, they've got good and reasonably reliable histories but you also have to consider that they're getting up around the 10-ish year old range which is historically when a lot of "little things" like failing sensors, emissions components, etc. can start showing up. On OBDII cars, this can turn into a MONUMENTAL cost quickly and a lot of states simply will not allow you to defer it - you can't re-register in a lot of states with an associated "check engine" light. There are an awful lot of sensors and valves and thingys that can fail and any one of them can throw a code and give you a CEL and a gigantic headache (and cost) to diagnose and repair.

Most modern cars don't suffer from catastrophic engine failures or any of the "big stuff" breaking (cranks, valves, cams, etc.) it's all the little electronic doohickeys and sensors and associated wiring that can quickly and suddenly stick an owner with a very expensive repair bill.

This is no different than any other new-ish/OBDII car (any one of them is prone to this) but on a Porsche with lots of hard-to-get-to places, sensors, etc. the problem of it being very difficult if not impossible to diagnose/repair onesself becomes magnified a bit.

I had a lot of misgivings about this when I bought my '01 Mercedes and fortunately (knock wood) so far I've been lucky - but I did have to replace two O2 sensors. Dealer estimate? Over $900. Fortunately I was able to DIY that one, but it can be very difficult to diagnose those things. Parts cost is only one small piece of the equation. The analysis/computer testing is a significant part of the price. The only other issue I've had with the car was a crank position sensor which was covered under warranty. The out-of-pocket cost for that would have been north of $500 (for a $70 part).

That's the only thing I'd be leery of.

Air-cooled 911s and old 944s don't really scare simply because the electronics is so much simpler and easier to comprehend, diagnose and work on (or doesn't exist at all). There are only so many things that can go wrong and the consequence of such-and-such a sensor failing are pretty linear and easy to chase down. Not so on a new car where a failing sensor can cause the computer to do all kinds of bizarre and non-linear things to compensate.

The over-computerization of the new 911s scares the hell out of me, especially if it's going to see DD duty.

Milt

All of that is true but as the years role on more and more of these cars will show problems with the engines.

------------------------------------------------------

Damn shame. Most modern cars suffer in the same way. They get to a point of being too expensive to fix really quickly.

If you can find a good one then you have a great daily that will last for more than 10 years.
You can DIY them and they really are good cars. The engine issues real or not have realy hurt the reputation of this car and that's everything to a prospective buyer on a tight budget.

I've driven many 996s and owned a 986-gen boxster for a couple years. I much prefer the older 911s over them, for 2 reasons. One, driving fun: the older cars are simply more fun all around, IMO. I feel more connected to the road, I'm more engaged, it takes more effort, concentration and work, and, like anything else in life, rewards that. If I want to go fast, I'll buy a corvette, which will blow the doors off a base model 996, and give a turbo a run for its money. Two, cosmetics: the 996 just doesn't do it for me, unless it's a widebody, and even then, those god-awful headlights are a deal-breaker for me. I still can't figure out who at PAG gave the go-ahead on those. Now, the 997, on the other hand...

Thinkin one day a 996 is in my future (don't tell the wife ;))

Course gotta fix the 944 first.

Interesting, I've come to find the 996 to be better looking of the two cars, especially a '99 with the aero package in red. The 997 is right on the edge of completely losing the "upside down bathtub" look of the original 356's. Their used to be a near continuous curve from the front of the car to the rear when viewed from the side. Now the 911 is losing that shape, and might be gone altogether with the next generation. If I want a car that flares up behind the rear doors, I'll get a Camaro...

My sentiments exactly. I've been in a few 996's and Boxsters and they just don't make the hair on my arms stand up. Once in a great while I come across a 996 that makes me think about it, like a seal gray C4S with all the mods or a TT. But none look or sound remotely as sexy as my 993. Sure, they'll trounce any older 911 in performance. But I'm not driving on the track every day. And would you believe my 993's a/c still blows ice cold after 14 yrs. and never once been serviced?

Mine actually had the engine replaced and trans rebuilt along the way. We had no records and no idea when the engine was replaced and how many miles it had, could have been 150k(??). It was hands-down the most trouble-free DD I've ever owned, if not for a simple/common emissions part failing, it would have had close to a 100% reliability rating. No comparison to an early 911. From the clutch to the seat leather, it was 10x tougher.

Mine had a full H&R coil-over suspension that totally transformed the car. I've driven stock 996s and they were pretty sloppy in comparison plus seemed like they were way too high off the ground. Like all 911s before them, they really respond well to certain performance mods. :cool:

a reasonably priced cayman would be a real temptation.

The issue is that the engines may leak or grenade. Not highly likely but those are both catastrophic failures - i.e. your $15k 996 will then be worth $5k. Nobody wants to take that risk. The older cars do not blow up. They wear out slowly and predictably.

I would only buy a newer Porsche with the old case / bottom end (turbo, GT3).

George

LN Engineering has addressed the IMS issue. If you schedule the fix (along with replacing the RMS) with a clutch job, the expense isn't terribly great.

I find it interesting how many cheap 996's there are for sale in California on-line.... A bunch can be found for under 20k while in the rest of the country most 996's are advertised for mid to upper 20's.

Pardon the sidetrack, but does anyone know of a good place online to find wrecked/salvage Porsches for sale (preferably directly from insurance companies)? I would not mind buying a couple totaled (one wrecked in rear, one wrecked in front) 996's or 997's to weld together. It would be a fun project to build a really nice daily driver.

Tim, keep an eye on the Oklahoma Foreign website.

I agree, the headlights on the 996 may be odd but I like the body shape better.

Actually, my 964 is classed in PCA Club Racing with early 996 cars so with a good driver it's a fair fight. I just came back from Watkins Glen and had no problem keeping up with the 996's on the track, and that is a horsepower track, granted, my car is almost 600lbs lighter :-)

That's it.

George, the older engines DO, for all intents and purposes, blow up on occasion. Ask PatrickB about the $25,000 he just spent on a full rebuild of his dead 3.2. Granted, it was a complete tear down and rebuild, but no performance mods were done. He had the bottom end strengthened, however, with the usual hardware.

I moved on to a 997 S a few months ago, and have put 11,000 kms on the car since then in very "spirited" touring. The car has performed flawlessly and feels absolutely bullet-proof.

It's not a 996 — but I have also driven 996's — and absolutely do not understand the comments about the air-cooled cars somehow giving a "purer" Porsche driving experience. The air-cooled cars are rougher and don't handle as well and are slower. If that is the purer driving experience you are looking for—I would encourage you to consider a TR3. You'll find that really pure.

I enjoyed my air-cooled Porsches over the years. I've owned 14 of them. They are lovely cars. But they are dated. Porsches evolve, and the new 997s IMO have every bit of the design purity and the famous "Porsche feeling" of the earlier iterations — the ultra communicative steering, the powerful engine behind you, the beautiful engineering, the rail-like handling, those colossal brakes — its all there in spades. If you haven't driven one in anger—you owe it to yourself to try one. It will convince you that the newer cars do represent progress.

As for durability—the water-cooled cars have been around for over 10 years, and there are some very high mileage examples out there. There is no evidence of which I am aware that these cars are any less durable than previous generations. None. If anything the opposite appears to be true. (The RMS problem can be avoided—and if not, there certainly is a fix.)

Gratuitous pic of my mount:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288390797.jpg

no one answer my previous question above. umm... I'll try another question see if anyone still own both for a while and can give an honest comment.
Regarding maintenance cost, let say DIY on 911 and 50% DIY on 996. Why 50%? because it's not been around as long as the 911, and 996 board is not as active on DIY as the 911 board(?)
Thanks.

How do you spend $25k on a 3.2 rebuild with no mods? Did he overnight it to Stuttgart? You could drop in a 3.8 RSR for far less than that or buy a few spare 3.2's.

Maybe depends on where you are. It would cost close to that where I live. It would cost north of that in, say, Germany—if we are talking full (top and bottom) rebuild.

It's easy to gloss over the repairs required to the older air cooled cars because they're old, but how many air cooled 911s make it beyond 150k without a reseal, valve stem seals, head studs, etc? There's a reason why you upgrade valve covers, chain tensioners, or add a pop-valve to the airbox, and it's not a superior initial design. Methinks this is more unfair bias against the new cars than it is truth.

Do the old cars have more character? Probably. But character is also a nice way of calling your car a pain in the ass. I tried to DD a 1970 911T, I know all about "character".

Wow...I had no idea that the 996 were dipping into the teens...the wheels in my head are turning...

So what you prefer:
1) 996

2) A really nice 928 GT

for the same price?

Going on eBay right now to check some out right now!

Wow...spot on...

Example 1: $19K (no reserve) 98,000 miles 6spd - Open to offers!
Porsche : 911: eBay Motors (item 160499694700 end time Nov-08-10 08:16:01 PST)

This car a few miles from my home here in Houston:
1999 62kmiles, 6 spd and $17,800
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1977238194.html
http://images.craigslist.org/3n23kc3...ada0571da3.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3n33k03...9cf7f011b2.jpg

lots of others out there...for that kind of money I could learn to love the headlights and willing to take on the IMS fix at home...!

Soon they will be cheap enough so that you can buy one without worrying about your investment too much. If you get 5K miles out of it, oh well, you're out 10K$. People spend that much in one weekend in Vegas.

But there's a good chance it will go 40, 50, even 100K miles after purchase with minimum upkeep expense (the typical service is quite cheap- it's the unplanned service that is costly, remember). . And at that point the car becomes a great investment.